Quality of smoke versus price

[Puff Daddy]

Or maybe a better way to put it would be, do you feel that the smoking quality of you high grades is commensurate with the price you paid? Dock has said more than once that he has some Stanwells that smoke as well or better than some uber-high grades he's owned and I've found too that I have inexpensive pipes that smoke at least as good as my most expensive at a fraction of the cost.

We all know that what you get for the money with high grades is design style, attention to detail, fantastic workmanship and (of course) resale value. I don't care how sweet that Stanwell smokes, it wont fetch a fraction of what a Castello with a poor drilling will. And then there's the anomaly issue - is that wonderful cheapo a fluke? Is that 4K Collection a pipe that slipped through the cracks of quality control and only a statistical outlier?

I'm sitting here smoking an S. Bang horn filled with G&H Louisiana flake and it's pure heaven, a cool even smoke with no moisture and perfect draw - a pipe that barely even gets warm to the touch. I know enough guys who also own Bangs to know that they smoke wonderfully, the reputation proves that they are great smoking instruments, and that Per and Ulf have made engineering a priority and intend that their pipes be smoked. I also know enough to know that there are high dollar carvers who do not worry so much about perfect smokeability as they do eye appeal, and with that in mind I ask what your experiences are, what your impressions are and what you think the value of top shelf pipes is as smoking instruments.

 

[Carlos]

I have more great smokes in pipes that cost me $100 - $350, than in the less expensive pipes. I have the exceptions. Just a matter of finding the right tobacco and as long as the pipe has a good draw. I guess I am paying for the attention to detail. I am not good enough to really be able to tell differences in the quality of the briar. Probably never will be.

 

[LL]

All but a few of my best smokers are truly old. Pre-WWII. Like Barry Levin, I think there's something going on with them that isn't understood.

The way they've been valued over the years makes it hard to do the price/satisfaction calculation. They were top-of-the-line when new, but only cost $10 or so. Pipes were "tobacco access tools," nothing more. Once smoked, they became worthless to anyone but the owner. People replaced pipes after a while like shoes and hats, and unwanted used ones went in the trash.

Starting in the early 80's they gained some secondhand value. I bought most of my Old Britwood between '83 and '93, for about a bill apiece.

A couple years ago they were worth a fair amount. $3-500.

Today they're worth half that because bastids like Radney, Jack Howell, and dem guys are hoovering all the attention.

So: I got great value, and anyone buying them today would. A couple years ago maybe not, though.

lol... aren't you glad you asked this question, PD? :lol:

 

[Puff Daddy]

Definitely glad I asked! I love the little insights that come from these kinds of discussions 8)

 

[mark]

At some point you cross the line from buying a good functional smoking pipe into the purchasing of art,,,at what point do you consider you've crossed that line ?

 

[Justpipes]

I have only one pipe that retails for $500+ and I must admit that it delivers a perfect smoke everytime I light it up as long as I have done my part. Proper packing, good tobacco with the right moisture content, cut, etc. On the other hand I have several under $100 that deliver just as good a smoke as long as I am doing my part. I have many in between those ranges that perform just as well. I believe a lot of it has to do with the smoker himself and how much attention he gives to the task. I have become very methodical in loading, packing, lighting and tamping while I enjoy a smoke and those factors alone can be the difference between a good or a bad experience.

 

[vaperfavour]

it's because of this exact question that I started collecting Eltangs. I have had S.bang, chonowitsh, expensive Dunhill, and I sold them off to pursue Eltangs, they smoke great! I once paid over 700$ for a dunnie and the drilling was so bad it was unsmokable. it was of recent manufacture. I did that again and vowed never to buy another Dunhill of recent manufacture. are they even still made in England? now an Eltang will smoke great every time! I have a black rusticated poker that didn't even need to be broken in! now that's quality!

 

[LL]

I have a black rusticated poker that didn't even need to be broken in! now that's quality!

Classic:

 

[vaperfavour]

I bet it smokes like a dream! I have a large lb style billiard about a grp. 6 in size, star grade that smokees so good it must be magic! it never and I mean never has any moisture come through the stem which for the life of me, I can't figger out, its a straight, large bowl and yet...... well must be magic!

 

[Dock]

I'm a sucker folks! There. I said it. :lol: I'm not ever gonna fool myself into thinking that a big priced pipe is gonna smoke any better than less expensive pipes that are engineered well. I like many other collectors simply fall in love with the whole idea of owning something rare and beautiful. I'm blessed to have resorces that allow me to own the world's best pipes. It's one of the few big splurges in my life. I don't drive a new car, wear Bruno Magli shoes or have expensive jewlery. I just love great pipes and spend on them accordingly.

When buying an expensive pipe a good smoke is ALMOST always assured. There's a million reasons why you should buy a Jess Chonowitsch or a Kurt Balleby but getting a great smoke from it aint one of em folks! Buy the pipe because you love it's design. Buy a Stanwell if you simply want a good smoking pipe.

If I were to do a blind taste test between one of my well broken in Stans and one of my well broken in Ballebys I GUARANTEE you that neither I nor anyone else could ever tell which was which!

You heard it here first folks! :lol:

 

[the macdonald]

Lol, Dock, I'm with you...well sort of, I don't have the museum collection you have but every once in while I get the urge to splurge on that special whatever and it'll be the best damned smoker through my rose colored glasses. It's very hard to seperate the experience of smoking a Dunhill ODA made the same year I was born from the actual smoke, so I stopped trying. I smoke because I enjoy it. Sometimes I enjoy smoking the superstar of my herd, other times the "old trusty pair of slippers" of the herd.

 

[Puff Daddy]

I'm of the opinion that the very least you should get with a high grade or uber-high grade is a wonderful smoke through good engineering and excellent wood. I can live with small variations because of a carvers personal opinion on airway design or internal engineering. If a carver has reason for a smaller airway or a wide open airway and the result is a good smoke, fine. If a carver has a penchant for briar from a certain region and the result is a fine smoke, great! If a carver feels that extra machining steps or fewer machining steps are, in his professional opinion, 'Correct' and the result is a fine smoke, fine. What I find unacceptable are off center or misaligned airways, tenons that are too short for their mortises, stems where the airway exit is not widened to allow for a constant and even volume of smoke to pass without constriction, etc. I've bought high grade pipes where I've later discovered less that 'Good' smoking experiences for some of the above reasons. Some of these I've resold, some I've fixed myself and some I've sent out to be fixed, but none on these I've simply lived with. I have gained an education because of these things, good and bad, so in a sense it was worth it to have some not-so-great pieces come into my possession along with the very finely engineered pieces. I just think that a carver or house that puts out pipes in the high grade range knows the difference and simply should not do it if he knows the pipe is less than excellent in it's engineering.

My experiences are only a small look into a bigger picture, but I've found more 'Issues' with British pipes, less with Danish and Italians, but there were still some issues here and there.

 

[mark]

If I were to do a blind taste test between one of my well broken in Stans and one of my well broken in Ballebys I GUARANTEE you that neither I nor anyone else could ever tell which was which!

You heard it here first folks! :lol:

Thank you for your honesty,,,
this really is interesting

 

[Bub]

This is a very interesting topic.
Let me ask it another way...where do you want to spend extra cash?
I love art, but I would rather hang a picture on our walls than a pipe in my rack.
OK, lets say that you are one of these uber rich guys, lets make it easy, and say that you make a million/year.
How much would you spend on pipes, tobacco, art for the walls, etc?
We have to find balance in our lives.
How does the fantastic moment you had with your favorite pipe and tobacco compare with that $5,000 pipe at smokingpipes.com.
Jay Leno has a garage full of fantastic cars, and I am struggling with a neat pipe that I saw on Rad's web site.
Maybe I will just smoke my pipe and watch the Tonight Show.
Bub

 

[Sasquatch]

I have only one pipe that retails for $500+ and I must admit that it delivers a perfect smoke everytime I light it up as long as I have done my part. .

Same here. My Peterson 140th is a perfectly behaved pipe, incredible flavor profile, smokes everything perfect, never a gurgle, etc. And the dang thing was expensive as hell!

I have other pipes that are as good, but most needed more break in time, or offer the occassional fussy smoke.

I tend to think that pipes are a pretty simple tool, and given some fundamental stuff like drilling, they will all do the same job in more or less the same way once they've been smoked 20 times.

 

[Midnight Blues]

Great thread P,

If I purchase a $5.00 pipe or a $500 pipe I expect a great smoke, anything less would be a waste of time, after all is said and done a great smoke is what we're all after.
I'm fortunate to have a small collection of wonderfully smoking pipes including a 56' Dunhill Bulldog, a hand full of Castello Sea Rocks, and several Peterson's, all these pipes smoke amazingly well. I also have 4 pipes I would consider High Grade, a Castello Collection, 2 Cavicchi 5c's and a Jack Howell Volkimo, all of these pipes smoke as well or better than the first group mentioned, though the briar is vastly more figured, all these pipes border on artistic pieces. But there is one pipe that stands head and shoulders above the rest, you may have guessed it, the Howell Volkimo. This pipe smokes dry and cool every time and fits my hand as if it were custom made to do so, there is an over abundance of straight grain and birds eye, its almost against the law. I paid more for the Volkimo than any of the others, its worth every penny and then some, but even with all that beautiful grain and carving that I would consider sculpture, its the smoking qualities that just over whelm me . So for me I can't see putting any pipe in my rack if it doesn't perform, regardless of price...

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

What shape are you describing as a Volkimo? A volano and. . .

 

[jhuggett]

I think it's a Volcano/Eskimo...

http://jwh.fastmail.fm/gallerypages.htm/gallery3.htm

 

[Midnight Blues]

What shape are you describing as a Volkimo? A volano and. . .

 

[Anonymous]

I'm in complete agreement with LL on this one. Accoustic guitars, violins and pipes all seem to need about 35 years of use to bring out the best in them.

Nearly all of the favorites here were made anywhere from the earlier 1970s back to around 1910. The one kicker in this is that their airways (stems in particular) generally need opened for them to reach their potential. But when they do, they just shine in comparison to more recently made pipes.

A Cavicchi is a good-tasting pipe new out of the box. So is a new Peterson with no bowl coating or stain dip. But a 1948 Peterson with an LL stem is in another category entirely. As are any of the old Brits he's re-stemmed -- some of them pretty blue collar productions. Both a Parker and a Bewlay, in fact, are slightly preferable to a Haymarket Loewe. (Or else it just hasn't found its ideal tobacco yet).

A good new Martin is a nice guitar. A pre-war Martin can be a revelation.

Same, in my experience with pipes.

:face: