A Practical Guide to Future Tobacco Prices

[HistoryMajor]

Well.

In terms of taxes, prices are insanely high here.

The plus side, though, is that our border is very permeable...I have had shipments come through labeled exactly as to what the contents are, and have been duty free.

I think so long as you don't have a package coming through every couple of days, you're OK. Because when yo travel from the U.S. through customs, you can declare your tobacco (so long as you have a very small amount!) and you might not get taxed.

The unfortunate thing though, is even though we can get stuff from the U.S., because our dollar is so weak currently, it's very hard to make frequent/large purchases. That's for me anyhow, it could be different for the other members.

My point is that it isn't actually a pipe dream. It certainly rests in a grey area in terms of legality, but it isn't a pipe dream.

As for that video, it can be found on the CTV website I believe, in the little player thing off to the right of the screen.

Also, I'm with Tweed on this one. Perhaps, if anything, this has encouraged me to concentrate my efforts on spending money at Chris's shop, instead of online. I mean, yes, I enjoy trying new blends, and it's great fun receiving packages in the mail and trying them out. I think I will continue to make those purchases, probably in bulk, for cellaring, but I think the average purchase I make, unless it's to try something new that's tinned, will be made at Burlington. It's not easy to spend that kind of money, but it makes me feel good to support local business...and, as was said, Chris has some phenomenal blends that I love smoking.

...or we could all start smoking cigarettes, it would appear they are cheaper now! :lol!:

 

[Slow Puffs]

The intentions of sending tobacco to friends up here is very warming. However, we do have, and all international customers have, a friendly etailer in the USA who is very helpful. He is our honorary "Monarch".

 

[HistoryMajor]

Yes, Puffs is quite right about that.

Here's the letter I sent to my representative in the legislature. 8)

Dear Ms. Evans,

I am writing this because I am hurt, astonished and appalled that my government would be so foolish. I mean, I can't complain that much; I've only been around for twenty years, and have seen none of the major problems that previous Alberta governments have had to deal with. However, what I see now is an absolutely obscene mismanagement of this province's finances.

And the sad part is you, not our government Ms. Evans, you, have decided to target a specific group of people to finance your errors. And so, you decided to pick smokers - the majority of whom have no political voice, no lobby groups, and no organization. Whether you have caved to pressures of lobby groups, or simply came up with this on your own, I really don't want to know. But I do want you to know that I am ashamed, and deeply disheartened that my representative would be so ambivalent, and so ignorant of the desires of society.

I don't need to harken back to legislation like smoking bans, when over 60% of the Canadian population were opposed, and I don't need to repeat what I have already told you about the increase in criminal activities. Those are irrelevant...you can always spend more of our money on fighting them, right?

What I do need to make very, very clear to you, is that you have decided to place a tax on the smallest cohort of the smoking population; pipe smokers. Pipe smoking has very few of the same health effects as cigarette smoking. Pipe smokers do not inhale, and pipe tobacco is unprocessed - there are no preservatives, the loose pipe tobacco one can buy goes not even contain the food grade preservative propylene glycol. They have a minor casing or topping, which is light flavour added, and that is it. When placed in a pipe and burned, filters can be added to greatly reduce tars and other acids produced.

The point, though, is that none of the rhetoric about health can justify this. Governments complain about how much smokers cost the health care system. What that rhetoric forgets is that even in 1993/94, when federal excise taxes were dropped drastically to fight smuggling (it worked, by the way) governments were still recovering all of the government-funded costs associated with smoking. No, I am afraid that at this point, there is no justification.

Pipe smokers do not quit because of taxes, because pipe smokers do not smoke for the nicotine. In the same way that one drinks wine, bourbon, or scotch; not in the way that an alcoholic guzzles down Smirnoff, that is how pipe smokers enjoy their libation. Therefore, pipe smokers do not quit because of tax increases. We will continue to spend what we can, continue to enjoy what little we have. Nor will Big Tobacco be hurt. You have taxed such a small percentage of annual sales that it will go unnoticed.

Health consequences are nearly irrelevant. You will not hurt Big Tobacco. People are not going to quit.

So what was the point of this, Ms. Evans? You have decided to cover your mistakes by taxing a voiceless, low income population. You have taxed a product that is enjoyed for its subtle qualities, not for its stimulating nature. You have taxed a product that is by and large used by an older, often retired population, who have trouble enough as it is affording to live in this province. You have betrayed the very ideals of a Conservative government.

I don't need Mr. Hagen, or any other advocates, nor government representatives to tell me what to do with my life. And I'm not sure why all of you think it is necessary to tell me how to live. I don't know where that ideology came from, where somehow, government representatives know what's best for their constituents.

This is a cash grab to cover your mistakes. There is no other way to justify this. Indeed, if your government is following Keynesian economic policy, it will fail on an epic scale; you do not raise taxes in a recession. Perhaps some MLAs could use some post-secondary education. It's a darn simple thing, and I don't know why representatives insist on doing it wrong.

Maybe I'll have to switch to cigarettes...they're cheaper. I can only hope that somehow my medical bills will take back what I've had taken from me by yourself.

Furthermore, you aren't going to hear about it. You are going to get away with this. And I am deeply ashamed that you represent my constituency. You should be ashamed as well.

All the best.

Tyler Dawson
P.S. Naturally, if there is any way of reversing or reforming this legislation, I would be more than happy to schedule a meeting with yourself, or any committees in the future that need an outside voice on the matter.

 

[kilted1]

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: BRAVO HM Very well done young man!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

Damn good letter there HistoryMajor, I wish you folks luck with it all.
Let this be a lesson to those of us here in the U.S. of A. to write to those in charge, make the phone calls send that email, make some noise.

 

[HistoryMajor]

Yup. And thanks.

My advice, catch this sh$t before it happens!

Our legislature can initiate, pass and implement laws in less than a day if they want. They are not required to consult constituents, nor report these laws to the media. In the official press release given to the media, ONLY the cigarette tax was mentioned. It's too late now to change this, basically. I can only sound pissed off.

If I had the money, I could go to court, but I don't, so I can't haha!

Write as soon as ya hear. We end up playing catch up, and trying to fight after laws have been passed, and it's a losing battle.

 

[Slow Puffs]

....

If I had the money, I could go to court, but I don't, so I can't haha!

Ask Chris how many times he's been fined. Ask him about his experience of going to court. Ask him about the threats he had, to "revoke" his license to sell tobacco...

you can't win

 

[kilted1]

....

If I had the money, I could go to court, but I don't, so I can't haha!

Ask Chris how many times he's been fined. Ask him about his experience of going to court. Ask him about the threats he had, to "revoke" his license to sell tobacco...

you can't win

Yeah, its sad, all that to defend the right to sell a product to people who accept whatever risks are associated with it's consumption.

 

[HistoryMajor]

So to update, I went and saw Chris today. I bought an ounce of tobacco, a tin of small cigars, and some beedis for a friend.

Total of 40ish dollars. The ounce of pipe tobacco was 16.95 or so, up from 12.92.

Yes, the tax increase affects all loose tobacco, tinned tobacco is included in this.

What Chris said about the tax itself is that he thinks it was a clerical decision, not an actual political move. Meaning, someone looked at the tax on loose tobacco, and figured it wouldn't be a big deal to jack it up. There was no conscious effort, other than it looked like a decent way to make money. He also thinks there are going to be a wealth of problems, because we will have cross provincial border smuggling now, much like the trouble with different levels of state taxation in the U.S. He figures it can't be good for business, his costs of keeping a stock of pipe tobacco has gone up around 5000 CAD.

Anyhow, that's what I found out today. I'm gonna have to go try the tobacco I bought, that part's still fun even if it was so expensive.

 

[Justpipes]

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: BRAVO HM Very well done young man!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Absolutely!

 

[Justpipes]

Damn good letter there HistoryMajor, I wish you folks luck with it all.
Let this be a lesson to those of us here in the U.S. of A. to write to those in charge, make the phone calls send that email, make some noise.

If not we are and still very well could end up like our brothers North of the border!

Ain't all you folks that voted for change proud! :evil: :roll:

 

[SmokeyTweed]

I also stopped in today and bought some tobacco HM. I must have missed you by an hour or so. The summerland is a decent smoke.

 

[Slow Puffs]

Eric Melby just contacted me and updated the Tax-Calculator on his site with the new Alberta taxes... thanks Eric. Eric used to live in Edmonton and is now in BC.

 

[HistoryMajor]

I must have missed you by an hour or so. The summerland is a decent smoke.

Probably. I was in from 1:45-2:30ish I think. I picked up some of the Okanogan. Seems pretty good so far. ipe: