Any Charatan experts?

[Rusty]

It's interesting that Charatan Freehands seem to try to stay close to traditional shapes, but at the same time, they can be some of the strangest, even downright goofy, looking things ever carved. I'd like to know more of the story behind them. For instance, the double-rimmed Dublins and Billiards. Where the carvers told to stay close to the standard shapes and given only limited leeway? Or maybe a really traditional person carving and thinking these slight alterations were as "out there" as they could handle? The result being some really oddball shapes, though they were attempting the very opposite?

I like the old Charatans and have a bunch. I doubt that Lane constrained the carvers. There was almost certainly a hierarchy in the shop that ran from apprentice to master pipe maker. The folks carving those big freehands were master pipe makers. They enjoyed creative freedom which is why some do look a little odd. But things like the cup & saucer shape variations were wonderful shapes. The last round included people like Barry Jones who was recruited to found Upshall. But it also included Colin Fromm who is now carving for Dunhill. It's not a coincidence that many new Dunhill Collectors look remarkably like Charatan freehands.

For those of you who used to enjoy the old Dunhill-Charatan rivalry you should know that Charatan became a trojan horse that subverted Dunhill from the inside out. Dunhill today is actually a mix of both companies. But I know this sort of statement inflames the Dunhill fans and that's fine!

When Lane was acquired in 1976 Charatan became part of Dunhill. All of this produced some remarkable changes in Dunhill. This was infiltration and the changes were profound. The late John Loring said it best in his book on Dunhill pipes:

"A major corporate acquisition of a competing product lines typically has the effect of forcing a rethinking and rationalization of both the acquirer and the acquired. This certainly appears to be the case with the Lane acquisition and seems to reflect corporate and financial minds not particularly steeped in or respectful of the past.
For instance
+ Dunhill's shape numbering system was completely restructured for the first time in its history;
+ attaining straight grained or partially straight grained pipes appears to become an important production objective;
+ non-precious metal, plated trim was introduced for pipes once considered too worthy for even sterling silver;
+ in a related front, pre-packaged pipe tobacco production was farmed out to Murray Sons & Co; and,
+ perhaps most questionably, there was a 'close out' of Dunhill stamped Bruyere stained pipes of dubious quality."

The Dunhill in the following post is an iconic Charatan shape. It's not a Dunhill shape.
https://www.brothersofbriar.com/t13496-new-dunhill-ferndown

Concerning the Charatan stem details that are mentioned in the early thread posts I wrote a little about Charatan and stem types in the following thread:
https://www.brothersofbriar.com/t9028-charatan-pipe-dating#103590

 

[ebuyer1932]

Hank - to sell items on this site they need to be posted in the Trading Post with all sales guidelines followed. You need to identify the specific items for sale and list a price per item. Thanks.

- the Management

 

[monbla256]

You might get more takers on your offer posting this in The Trading Post here.

 

[ebuyer1932]

Thank you. I am afraid, I don't have enough postings in order to be qualified to post there.


That doesn’t allow you to sell via hijack from other locations on the site.

- the Management

 

[Zeno Marx]

Did Charatan coat their bowls? I can't remember.

 

[monbla256]

Did Charatan coat their bowls?  I can't remember.

Don't know about today's but never back in the '60s thru '80s when I was buying them ! :twisted:

 

[monbla256]

:roll: OOPS

 

[Zeno Marx]

Is there any significance to whether an X-out Charatan was Xed out with the asterisk or with a simple Xs? One of my first pipes was an X-out, and Xs were used. Later on, I ran into many more X-outs where big "*"s were used to mark out the stampings. I've always wondered if it indicated something, or if it was whatever the people at the factory had handy insofar as stamping tools.

 

[monbla256]

Is there any significance to whether an X-out Charatan was Xed out with the asterisk or with a simple Xs?  One of my first pipes was an X-out, and Xs were used.  Later on, I ran into many more X-outs where big "*"s were used to mark out the stampings.  I've always wondered if it indicated something, or if it was whatever the people at the factory had handy insofar as stamping tools.

The x'd out pipes were those sold when Dunhill bought Charatan the first time during the '80s. Besides just a single X they completly x'd out the name Charatan on some.This is the best explination/history I've found on Charatan: https://www.alpascia.com/moments/en/detail/81/charatan-pipes

 

[Zeno Marx]

Right. I understand that. I'm asking about the symbols used to do the Xing out.

 

[Zeno Marx]

ch as in chair, or ch as in sheep? Until recently, I'd never heard anyone say Chairatan.