Can ALL of you experienced pipe smokers chime in on this one

[Lonecoyote]

Okay, I totally understand that the mechanics behind the making of a " proper " perfect smoking pipe is very important, EXAMPLE: size and accuracy of the draft hole and chamber. That a pipe cleaner passing completely thru the stem into the chamber effortlessly is possible.  

But, how many of us also believe that the age and region of the briar plays an extremely important roll in making what we pipers call " a superb smoking pipe "!!  



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[Richard Burley]

I think it's more what is done to the briar post-harvest than anything else. I've had allegedly 100-year old briar that smoked like crap and I've had allegedly wonderful old Algerian briar that smoked like crap. Say what you want about Dunhills and other old-school marques, you never get a green or nicotinic taste from them. I always attributed that to processing. That and how close to the burl plateau the stummel came from, maybe. But I'm not a pipe maker and don't know what I'm talking about. Those are just the impressions rattling around my skull for 50 years.

 

[Zeno Marx]

I agree with Mr.Burley. And to highlight the processing and air or oil curing aspects, I've always believed that more important. Post harvest has seemed to be of greater importance. Age and region of the burl itself has never been on my priority list.

 

[Lonecoyote]

I definitely agree with Richard Burley, the importance of how the briar is post harvested. How it's aged by air drying and " length " of time to dry properly or even when oil cured, time is a BIG factor. Are any regions known for quality briar now rushing the proper procedure for post harvesting? It my " opinion " from experience the answer is YES.

Maybe that's why I prefer to purchase pipes or briar when making a pipe ( in the past 10 years ) from Algeria or Greece. Personally I find this briar is post harvested and cured properly, well to my liking anyway.

It's my personal preference now and wanted opinions from other's that also enjoy smoking a pipe.

THIS IS MY " OPINION ", NOT A FACT


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[Zeno Marx]

Maybe that's why I prefer to purchase pipes or briar when making a pipe ( in the past 10 years ) from Algeria or Greece. Personally I find this briar is post harvested and cured properly, well to my liking anyway.

I definitely understand. It's an intuitive notion, for me, that certain regions or markets would be better skilled or have particular knowledge of how to do things. I don't know if that is a smart or accurate way to go about things, but it makes sense on some level. Then again, with globalization and markets competing in a different way than in the past, things might not be like that now. My wording has been atrocious today. Please forgive me.

I'm thinking and projecting from my own world. I was involved in the music industry for a while, and for a long time, things were done this way or that way. Then, in the past 10-15 years, it changed a lot. The assumptions in the past have become less and less accurate to how things happen now. Things adjusted to the new market and priorities, and now things aren't handled in the same qualitative manner. They adjusted so each craft could stay competitive in the new market. Their specialties, or uniqueness, was of dwindling value in the new world, and if they didn't change how they did business, they would have been forced out of the market and out of business.

So, if Algerian briar was handled a certain way in the past, it might not be plausible for it to be handled that same way now. Just for an example. Make any sense? Not trying to be obtuse or cryptic here. I basically only look for older pipes, so this isn't something that has affected me a whole lot.

 

[AJ]

For me the old oil cured 100 year old Algerian briar used in the old Dunhills and Comoy's are still the best smoking pipes. KBB used 100 year old briar until their supply ran out in the early 1950s. Old pre-1952 Yello-Bole and Kaywoodie pipes are on par with the old Dunhills and Comoy's when compared to the effect the old briar has on the taste of the tobacco smoked in these old standards. Often these companies cured their briar for a decade or more. Briar with that much age is no longer available for harvest and it's not economically feasible to age briar for a decade or more. Still today some pipe makers turn out some very pleasant smoking pipes. Today Edwards still uses oil cured Algerian briars in their pipes and they are wonderful pipes to smoke. I have 20 Edwards Pipes in my collection and all of them deliver a nice sweet smoke. Is this due to the oil cured briar? I believe it is but I don't know the age of their briar currently used. I know at one time they had an enormous stockpile of 75-100 year old Algerian briar but I haven't any idea if any of the older briar is still in existence. So in my opinion depending on how the old briar was when cured, it did have a positive effect on the quality of one's smoking pleasure. If there's a better smoking pipe than an old 1930s Comoy's Old Bruyere or a pre -WWII Royal Comoy's I haven't found it but the search continues...    

AJ

_________________
Realizing one's own ignorance is the first step in obtaining wisdom.

 

[Sasquatch]

I hunted magic briar for the first five years of my pipemaking. It was fun.

I've smoked pipes made basically identically, with briar from Spain (2 mills), Italy (4 mills), Greece (2 mills) and Algeria.


The pipes are not identical in flavor right off the bat. I think I could tell you Spanish from most of the Italian mills, 2 in particular. But after 5 smokes? I couldn't tell you a damn thing.

The results over time with customer responses yields the same thing. Not once has anyone ever come back to me and said "The first 3 pipes you made me are great, this one is awful" when I shipped a pipe made from different wood.

Not once in 500 pipes has someone thought the briar was bad.

That's not to say that there's nothing to oil curing or that briar with certain characteristics doesn't smoke maybe just a hair nicer in some way or another, but I think the idea that there's all this horrible unsmokable briar around is basically wrong.

At this point I don't care who I buy wood from as long as it's clean and cut well (so that eliminates about 3/4 of the mills!).


Pipe smokers will believe anything. The truth about briar age is that it is and has always been harvested when the plant is between 30 years old and about 60 years. The idea that anyone is dating the plant or has any idea how old the trees are other than "this is big enough (ie about 30 years)" at the time of harvest is silly. The idea that anyone ever sat on briar blocks for 100 years is even sillier. Briar has never been warehoused like this, and the claims of "50 year old briar" stem from fuzzy catalog-speak - yes, roughly speaking, all briar we make pipes from is 50 years old because the plants have to be big enough. That's all. No one ever aged briar for 50 years - imagine the warehouse costs if you were making 500,000 pipes a year! And you need a 50 year headstart? Impossible.

But as soon as someone says "50 year old briar" (I failed, digging through Chris's Pipe Pages broken link by broken link to find the old catalog that mentions 50 year old roots, it was one of the big ones, comoy or Sasieni etc) - boom, the fire is lit, and the next guy, he needs 100 year old briar. And pipe smokers, we lick this **** up, we just can't get enough mysticism! We want dead roots, we want 100 year old midnight harvested wonder briar, we want pipes that smoke themselves. All malarky.

Clean wood, good drilling, good stem = good pipe.

Briar stabilizes a bit over a couple years of drying. That's all folks, sorry.

And for the record, I've smoked a pre-war Sasieni, it was fine. A genuine oil cured Dunhill Shell (NIB, I paid for that one). It was fine. Wartime Kaywoodies... I'm talking unsmoked pipes here kids. They. Are. Fine. They're fine. Rather have a Castello any day.


Oh, and just to really muck this up? How come no one talks about the difference between smooth and blasted dunhills? Smooths weren't oil cured. Ever. The Shell patent IS the oil cure patent. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[monbla256]

A lot of good things have been said here and I can't add anymore than with the amalgamation of many of the older pipe makers, especially in Britain in the late '80s of the differences in the brands have disapeared and there is a "sameness" in many of the pipes offered today. Having bought most of my pipes in the '70s I can remember the differences and will stay with these old ones I have. I must add that most of the pipes I have that were made from old oil-cred wood have been the  best and most consistent smokers I have had. JMHO :twisted: By the way Dunhil used oil-cured Algerian briar for their Shell/blasted pipes up till around '70 and for me these are the best they made. :twisted:

 

[KevinM]

I think Sasquatch makes very credible comments. I have no way of telling how old the briar is or where it came from in pipes I've bought in the last 25 years or so. In that time, I've had very few pipes that I'ddescribe as "cranky." I have some pipes that I've been smoking for more than 50 years and a few that were said to be made nearly 100 years ago. They are very enjoyable. I think that pipes thrive on being maintained well, kept clean, rotated reasonably and treated to quality leaf. I think also that the carver has to begin with good briar, but have no idea whether the margins for aging briar are at five years, ten, fifty or whatever. Briar doesn't come with X-dates dates. I've read that oil curing does make a difference, but only for the break in period and maybe a little beyond. I guess I'm a pipe positivist -- if the pipe seems to be doing its job competently then I try to find what type of tobacco it prefers and go from there.

 

[Ozark Wizard]

I like pipes that burn tobacco. Without getting too hot to hold, little to no gurgle if possible, and are easy to look at and clean. I don't know about aging or treatment of the materials. I guess I'm not prone to play into the mystique of briar grown from Roman times, dipped in virgin vaginal fluids or cured in Death Valley. As long as they are not toxic I'm good.....

 

[Zeno Marx]

Pipe smokers will believe anything. The truth about briar age is that it is and has always been harvested when the plant is between 30 years old and about 60 years. The idea that anyone is dating the plant or has any idea how old the trees are other than "this is big enough (ie about 30 years)" at the time of harvest is silly. The idea that anyone ever sat on briar blocks for 100 years is even sillier. Briar has never been warehoused like this, and the claims of "50 year old briar" stem from fuzzy catalog-speak - yes, roughly speaking, all briar we make pipes from is 50 years old because the plants have to be big enough. That's all. No one ever aged briar for 50 years - imagine the warehouse costs if you were making 500,000 pipes a year! And you need a 50 year headstart? Impossible.

But as soon as someone says "50 year old briar" (I failed, digging through Chris's Pipe Pages broken link by broken link to find the old catalog that mentions 50 year old roots, it was one of the big ones, comoy or Sasieni etc) - boom, the fire is lit, and the next guy, he needs 100 year old briar. And pipe smokers, we lick this **** up, we just can't get enough mysticism! We want dead roots, we want 100 year old midnight harvested wonder briar, we want pipes that smoke themselves. All malarky.

This reminds me of the Lucky Strike plot in Mad Men. Don, the main character and advertising head, came up with the idea that "It's toasted!" The owner of Lucky Strikes replied, "They're all toasted. We all toast the tobacco." But see, they claimed it first. In other words, it was smart, good advertising to set their cigarettes apart from all the others, though all the others did the same thing. Advertising. It's a powerful psychological element.

 

[Sasquatch]

BRUYERE GUARANTIE :lol:


GERMAN EBONITE! (I suppose it could be japanese now too, to be fair)


SECRET INGREDIENTS!

:cheers:

 

[hobie1dog]

The Sheeple will believe anything. Social Masturbation at its finest, just like Political promises. :lol:

Sasquatch said it all.

 

[Lonecoyote]

Oh, and just to really muck this up? How come no one talks about the difference between smooth and blasted dunhills? Smooths weren't oil cured. Ever. The Shell patent IS the oil cure patent. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Excellent point and I totally agree!! The two shell Dunhill's I have were my grandfathers and both are excellent smokers. In the past I've owned 3 smooth finish Dunnies and have since sold them, did not care for the way they smoked.



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[Lonecoyote]

hobie1dog

Social Masturbation at its finest, just like Political promises.

Never quite thought of it that way... :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Wouldn't you consider public and political masturbation the same?? Arbitrarily speaking you should be arrested for both!

Adds a whole new light to the meaning of masturbation... :cheers:


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[Lonecoyote]

I like pipes that burn tobacco. Without getting too hot to hold, little to no gurgle if possible, and are easy to look at and clean. I don't know about aging or treatment of the materials. I guess I'm not prone to play into the mystique of briar grown from Roman times, dipped in virgin vaginal fluids or cured in Death Valley. As long as they are not toxic I'm good.....

WOW, a new marketing scheme that would put the sale of new pipes through the roof....." dipped in virgin vaginal fluids "!
I think you've got something there Ollie.



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[ftrplt]

Would dipping a Meer in "virgin vaginal fluids" be the same as dipping it in whale oil??? Just askin'!! :cheers: FTRPLT

As to the subject at hand (no masturbation going on BTW!!), I am no briar expert. All I know is what I've read or been told on the subject over the last 50 years. As for Dunnies, all of mine are older (20's-60's, including three birthyear '46's). One is a '69, all else earlier. The Shells smoke superbly except for the '69 Tanshell. Haveta' be careful with that one or it really heats up. I have a very few Bruyeres that smoke well, but I prefer the Shells. FWIW!! :cheers: FTRPLT

 

[Richard Burley]

Ditto for old Dunhill Shells vs. smooths.

Somewhere I read that a pipemaker (or at least the one being quoted) can tell whether a pipe will be a good performer by the scent of the wood while being worked. Seems like this ought to be true, if it's not. Hasn't anyone else here ever had what I call "green wood" in a pipe? No matter what you do, or what kind of tobacco you smoke, you just can't get the thing to taste right. The tobacco will taste extra strong, always, even up to the point of bitterness. No amount of cleaning, resting, alcohol/salt soaks, or anything else will make it taste like anything but nicotine, or what I think is nicotine. It's as though the pipe had been aged in urine or something. I have tossed a few over the years--before we had ebay, heh, heh. :twisted:

 

[AJ]

I guess I'm not prone to play into the mystique of briar grown from Roman times, dipped in virgin vaginal fluids or cured in Death Valley.

Good luck on finding a virgin today. It's my understanding the only virgins are the ugliest girls in the third grade. Unless one is a disgusting child molester they don't exist. :evil: :evil: I'll just stick with the old Comoy's, GBDs, BBBs, Kaywoodies, and etc. However I will admit the Osage Orange Churchwarden you made for me is a fine smoker. I'm afraid to ask what strange Ozark concoction you used to cure it. :twisted: :twisted: :lol!:

AJ

 

[Lonecoyote]

Somewhere I read that a pipemaker (or at least the one being quoted) can tell whether a pipe will be a good performer by the scent of the wood while being worked. Seems like this ought to be true, if it's not. Hasn't anyone else here ever had what I call "green wood" in a pipe? No matter what you do, or what kind of tobacco you smoke, you just can't get the thing to taste right. The tobacco will taste extra strong, always, even up to the point of bitterness. No amount of cleaning, resting, alcohol/salt soaks, or anything else will make it taste like anything but nicotine, or what I think is nicotine. It's as though the pipe had been aged in urine or something. I have tossed a few over the years--before we had ebay, heh, heh. Twisted Evil

RB
ABSOLUTELY, whatever pipe I made for myself or a gift, while drilling the chamber, just from the smell/scent of the wood I knew immediately how well the pipe would smoke. That's also the point when your able to tell if it's a bit " GREEN ".
The last pipe I made the " so called aged briar " was extremely fresh, was able to dig into the briar with my thumbnail. Now that's soft wood and I knew to go no further. I was so pissed it made to the next bon-fire!! Boy, did it stink. Can you imagine smoking tobacco with that " crap " piece of briar!



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