Gun control in Switzerland

[Ol'Dawg]

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Jim

 

[puros_bran]

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be

to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows

that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races

to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so

doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply

of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the

overthrow of any sovereignty."
- Adolf Hitler

 

[puros_bran]

The real meaning of Gun control.

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[Joseph76]

I've only visited Switzerland once but what I quickly came away with was... the Swiss are a highly educated group of people who value freedom but also care about their neighbors. I think Education is the key.

 

[Al in Canada]

Interesting country and people the Swiss. Four official languages, they use a form of direct democracy for part of their government, with nation wide "town" meetings, and universal male military service.

That military service ends up with everyone being a member of the reserve, and they must maintain their personal weapon, do a summer camp. You note the man points to four different generations of the family military guns in the video.

Their military policy is to mount a small unit defense upon mobilization. Helps to have a strong defensive terrain, but no one has felt ready to take them on in recent times.

 

[puros_bran]

They were pretty bad dudes in antiquity also.. I hear tale the Pope still likes to keep a few of those Swiss fellers around.

 

[Al in Canada]

They were pretty bad dudes in antiquity also.. I hear tale the Pope still likes to keep a few of those Swiss fellers around.

Yeah, you got the post card types, with pikes and lace collars and puffy pants, and then you got the rest of them with very modern weaponry that you never see
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Swiss_Guard_2.JPG

 

[puros_bran]

Yeah they use the 550... Badarse weapon..

From what I understood they have all been under som e pretty serious training the past 5-6 years, weapons & tactics, CQB, Martial Arts.. Looks like they are trying to make them 'real' body guards.

 

[Al in Canada]

Yeah they use the 550... Badarse weapon..

From what I understood they have all been under som e pretty serious training the past 5-6 years, weapons & tactics, CQB, Martial Arts.. Looks like they are trying to make them 'real' body guards.

My understanding is that they have always been a competent and trained military force, with a visible showcase public presence. Kind of like the Marine color guard at Arlington, Marines first, and then selected to make a showpiece for the public. They look like show pieces, but they are all trained Marines first and foremost.

And I think their tightening up of their security measures goes back to the 1970 knife attack, although it may predate that.

 

[puros_bran]

Yes they have but after the murder-suicide of the commandant and his gay lover a few years back they have been kickin it up a notch.

 

[Anonymous]

Gun Control in Texas:

You stay the **** of my property and I'll contol myself and not shoot you in the ass.

I am THE Texas Outlaw and I approve of this message.


And If you ain't down with that, I got two words for you....

 

[Al in Canada]

Gun Control in Texas:

You stay the **** of my property and I'll contol myself and not shoot you in the ass.

I am THE Texas Outlaw and I approve of this message.


And If you ain't down with that, I got two words for you....

different set of assumptions in the two societies. In the U.S. the settlers were always out racing the law, first there were people, then the law when they got organized, if they did. Until the law came along justice was strictly the concept honourable people decided to enforce and everyman felt he was a legitimate source for the rules of the law.

In Canada the frontier was opened to settlers by the government, the laws and courts accompanied or preceded the settlers. And the Mounties did some amazing things with very few men, and little enough violence.

End result, in Canada there is a tradition of relying on the police to protect the community, and the courts to enforce just laws, contrasted to the American basic distrust of government power (as seen in the Constitutional checks and balances), and a reliance on the personal enforcement of justice.

In Canada you cannot assume that someone coming on to your property means you harm, and even if they do, your response has to be measured to the threat. Shooting at, let alone shooting and hitting, someone stealing a chicken from my hen house is not an appropriate level of response to the crime. If someone broke into my house and was threatening me with a knife and I shot him and put him down, it would not be appropriate to finish him off. Very civilized don't you know.

And before you fire a broadside aback, realize the system works. the homicide rate per 100,000 in Montreal is (2.6), Vancouver (3.1), Toronto (3.3) [2007]
[2007] Compared with homicide rate for Atlanta (19.7), Boston (10.3), Los Angeles (10.0), New York City (6.3).

Most threatening people who come onto my property, as a rule, are "used" religion salesmen. Misguided people who go away when asked. Haven't had to resort to my last resort, "I only discuss God nude, can't wear any prideful garments when seeking God's truth." LOL

 

[Doc Manhattan]

New York City isn't a fair example--the gun control laws there are substantially stricter than Canada's... not to mention that there's a bigger population than all but one Canadian province, crammed into an area smaller than some cornfields. It's just always going to be a statistical exception.

 

[Al in Canada]

Doc M,

NYC doesn't come off all that bad, worse than the smaller Canadian cities, but look how much better than the other American cities. And no the "Sullivan Act" (or its successor) is no where near as stringent as Canadian gun laws.

I would have to really jump through a lot of hoops to get a hand gun here, and it would have to be kept under lock and key, as would its ammo, and you need a specific permit to move it from storage say to a range for shooting. And no deviations in the transportation route to or from would be allowed, or be subject to arrest. There is no such thing for the common man as a carry permit.

If i possessed a hand gun, and someone broke into my house and was armed, I would have to unlock the gun cabinet, then unlock the trigger guard, then load the gun before i could use it. LOL

Luckily this is not a scenario that is likely to happen here, unless I happen to be a drug dealer, and they don't seem to care much about the gun laws. Seized guns in the States are generally auctioned off, and thus go back into the system, unless they are patently illegal like a Browning 50 cal MG, here they destroyed.

The really big difference is here if your really obnoxious brother-in-law takes the turkey drumstick off your plate at Thanksgiving dinner you might punch him in the nose or go at him with the carving knife, in Buffalo or Detroit you go get the pistol out of the night stand in your bedroom and have at him from across the room. Similar scenario if you catch your wife in bed with the next door neighbor.

 

[Justpipes]

Gun Control in Texas:

You stay the **** of my property and I'll contol myself and not shoot you in the ass.

I am THE Texas Outlaw and I approve of this message.


And If you ain't down with that, I got two words for you....

I vote for the Texas gun control philosphy!

 

[ftrplt]

Ahem......To return to Switzerland from Tejas (also known as Baja Oklahoma in at least one state!! :lol: ). IIRC, the Swiss-required male military duty is also tied to full voting-rights citizenship. No duteee, no voteee!! This may have changed, but during my time flying around the NATO countries, this was the practice/law. FTRPLT

 

[DoverPipes]

different set of assumptions in the two societies. In the U.S. the settlers were always out racing the law, first there were people, then the law when they got organized, if they did. Until the law came along justice was strictly the concept honourable people decided to enforce and everyman felt he was a legitimate source for the rules of the law.

In Canada the frontier was opened to settlers by the government, the laws and courts accompanied or preceded the settlers. And the Mounties did some amazing things with very few men, and little enough violence.

End result, in Canada there is a tradition of relying on the police to protect the community, and the courts to enforce just laws, contrasted to the American basic distrust of government power (as seen in the Constitutional checks and balances), and a reliance on the personal enforcement of justice.

In Canada you cannot assume that someone coming on to your property means you harm, and even if they do, your response has to be measured to the threat. Shooting at, let alone shooting and hitting, someone stealing a chicken from my hen house is not an appropriate level of response to the crime. If someone broke into my house and was threatening me with a knife and I shot him and put him down, it would not be appropriate to finish him off. Very civilized don't you know.

And before you fire a broadside aback, realize the system works. the homicide rate per 100,000 in Montreal is (2.6), Vancouver (3.1), Toronto (3.3) [2007]
[2007] Compared with homicide rate for Atlanta (19.7), Boston (10.3), Los Angeles (10.0), New York City (6.3).

Most threatening people who come onto my property, as a rule, are "used" religion salesmen. Misguided people who go away when asked. Haven't had to resort to my last resort, "I only discuss God nude, can't wear any prideful garments when seeking God's truth." LOL

Al, look at your stats. They are from cities that have some of the STRICTEST gun control laws in the USA!!! The reason why they are so high is because THE VICTIMS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO LEGAL FIREARMS IN THESE CITIES!!!! THAT'S WHY THEY ARE VICTIMS!!!! Pull some stats from cities / states where there is full carry / ccw laws that enable law abiding citizens to protect themselves and you'll see number as good (if not better) than Canada!!! Once again, it's an unfair compasrison by the "anti-gun" lobby (US & Canada).

Granted, the attitude of "if you come onto my property, I'll kill you" is way over the top and is ILLEGAL and will open you up to huge liability in most of the U.S. Texas, is a whole different story altogether.......... :roll:

 

[Justpipes]

different set of assumptions in the two societies. In the U.S. the settlers were always out racing the law, first there were people, then the law when they got organized, if they did. Until the law came along justice was strictly the concept honourable people decided to enforce and everyman felt he was a legitimate source for the rules of the law.

In Canada the frontier was opened to settlers by the government, the laws and courts accompanied or preceded the settlers. And the Mounties did some amazing things with very few men, and little enough violence.

End result, in Canada there is a tradition of relying on the police to protect the community, and the courts to enforce just laws, contrasted to the American basic distrust of government power (as seen in the Constitutional checks and balances), and a reliance on the personal enforcement of justice.

In Canada you cannot assume that someone coming on to your property means you harm, and even if they do, your response has to be measured to the threat. Shooting at, let alone shooting and hitting, someone stealing a chicken from my hen house is not an appropriate level of response to the crime. If someone broke into my house and was threatening me with a knife and I shot him and put him down, it would not be appropriate to finish him off. Very civilized don't you know.

And before you fire a broadside aback, realize the system works. the homicide rate per 100,000 in Montreal is (2.6), Vancouver (3.1), Toronto (3.3) [2007]
[2007] Compared with homicide rate for Atlanta (19.7), Boston (10.3), Los Angeles (10.0), New York City (6.3).

Most threatening people who come onto my property, as a rule, are "used" religion salesmen. Misguided people who go away when asked. Haven't had to resort to my last resort, "I only discuss God nude, can't wear any prideful garments when seeking God's truth." LOL

Al, look at your stats. They are from cities that have some of the STRICTEST gun control laws in the USA!!! The reason why they are so high is because THE VICTIMS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO LEGAL FIREARMS IN THESE CITIES!!!! THAT'S WHY THEY ARE VICTIMS!!!! Pull some stats from cities / states where there is full carry / ccw laws that enable law abiding citizens to protect themselves and you'll see number as good (if not better) than Canada!!! Once again, it's an unfair compasrison by the "anti-gun" lobby (US & Canada).

Granted, the attitude of "if you come onto my property, I'll kill you" is way over the top and is ILLEGAL and will open you up to huge liability in most of the U.S. Texas, is a whole different story altogether.......... :roll:

Why do you think Al went to Canada? They have that whole rose colored glasses thing going on!

 

[HistoryMajor]

Pull some stats from cities / states where there is full carry / ccw laws that enable law abiding citizens to protect themselves and you'll see number as good (if not better) than Canada!!!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong....the understanding of the difference between guns in Canada and the US is the number of deaths as a result. That is, gun violence is way higher in the United States than Canada, and gun possession is way higher in the US as well. Long guns we might come off relatively equitable, especially out West, but in terms of handguns, the comparison hardly even exists.

I guess what I'm saying is instead of looking at homicide rates, it's worth looking at the rates of gun violence. In my view that probably provides a very different picture. *Shrug* But this one ain't in the Rubber Room.

In terms of Switzerland, it probably comes down to a different culture than the US, and even Canada.

P.S. JP, we don't need rose coloured glasses for things to be fine north of the 49th.

 

[DoverPipes]

Since violent crimes are a smaller fraction of all crimes, the difference between the two countries is less than the homicide rate might make it seem, and the overall rates are generally close (see Crime in the United States).

Furthermore, in recent years, the gap in violent crime rates between the United States and Canada has narrowed due to a precipitous drop in the violent crime rate in the U.S. For example, while the aggravated assault rate declined for most of 1990s in the U.S. and was 324 per 100,000 in 2000, the aggravated assault rate in Canada remained relatively steady throughout and was 143 per 100,000 in 2000. In other areas, the U.S. had a faster decline. For instance, whereas the murder rate in Canada declined by 36% between 1991 and 2004, the U.S. murder rate declined by 44%. [8] Surprisingly, both Saskatoon and Regina consistently have Violent Crime rates that would place them among the 10 most violent cities in the US, and often individually exceed larger US centers in terms of Total numbers for Aggravated Assaults and Robbery.
In 2004 the murder rate in the U.S. dipped below 6 per 100,000, for the first time since 1966.[8]

Canada\'s total population (2009 Estimate): 34,630,000
United States total poulation (2009 Estimate): 309,162,581

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada

We\'ve argued this before. The bottom line for me is, I\'d rather have the right & ability to carry a firearm and be able to defend myself if I needed to. Like the saying says, it\'s better to have it and NOT USE it as opposed to needing it and NOT HAVING IT.

PS: From personal experience: I have had people attempt to rob me in New Orleans, New York City, Baltimore & Boston. (All wonderful cities that have STRICT gun control I might add ) Each time I was prepared and had my firearm ready and available, thus ending the attempts. I was lucky, two had knives and the others were strong arm / intimidation / group attacks. I simply had the superior firepower. In all cases, the \"local youths\" were held for police and subsequently arrested for their misdeeds.

I never fired a shot, lucky for them. I have also stopped several crimes in progress where others were being victimized (at least four attempted rapes, several violent felony assaults, one arson attempt, and a parental \"kidnapping\" in a shopping mall) This is over a period of time in excess of 22 years!!!

I will also add that I do have the ability to carry firearms throughout the US due to my occupation & the fact that I am also CCW licensed (as a private citizen in several states, in addition to my occupation). This is one of the things that I am glad for. I do feel sorry for those who don\'t have the same abilities as I do........

STAY SAFE OUT THERE!!! (Including you guys in Canada )
PPS: Al, I know what you are saying. If we had the answers, we wouldn't be here talking about it.