High-End Beauty

[alfredo_buscatti]

Most of the time when I view high-ends, I think that their cost is only justified by their craftsmanship and aesthetics. Highly admirable-yes. But given that I could afford them only in future lives or be rewarded by them in that place called heaven, they become only wonderful to behold, through the digital void and at the end of the online rainbow.

Other times I see them as great art, but not as great as my favorite writers. Somehow their perfection is not as perfect as Jane Austen or Virginia Woolf; but that is only my aesthetic sense. In reality Jess Chonowitsch and Rolando Negoita produce pipes just as perfect; and I am in awe of their perfection.

Hopefully these pipes smoke as well as their superlative shapes and finishes appear. I wouldn't know. As one member said, in the end a pipe is just a tube with two holes. But I must admit that a cob is not a briar, and a briar is not a high-end.

rev loves what I would call modern or abstract pipes. But I don't as once a pipe moves too far away from classical shapes or employs a finish that looks nothing like wood, though I can admire it, it becomes less of a pipe, which in the end is always utilitarian. It's use, smoking tobacco, becomes secondary.

What do you think?

 

[Harlock999]

I can appreciate the beauty of some art pipes (Florov, Revyagin), but the last thing I want to do is smoke them. As art, they would just sit on my shelf, being admired.

 

[Anonymous]

What if your idea of a "high-end beauty" is a near-pristine, nineteen thirty-something Ben Wade ?

:cat: :face: :study:

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Then that is your aesthetic.

 

[the rev]

why do you assume that the abstract art pipes do not smoke well? From what I hear the Revy pipes are amazing to smoke. And Tarock briar says he will not sacrifice function while pushing the boundaries of form. I hear all the time that people have sacrificed function for form and it is not a pipe anymore but artwork, but I have never heard anyone who has actually smoked them complain. So it seems to me that it is actually, "I like this style better".

rev

 

[Puff Daddy]

There's art, there's craft, there's beauty and there's collectability. These things may all intersect at once, or not. If all of these things do intersect with a pipe, do you smoke it? If some do but others do not, do you smoke it? Which of these is more important in making a pipe desireable for smoking, for not smoking?

Slippery slope. It would be easy to say nobody in their right mind would smoke a pristine Bo Nordh, but there are already so many examples of just that very thing happening. Clearly the answer is, there is no clear answer.

The answer for me, personally, is, buy the coolest, neatest looking pipes that you can comfortably afford, and do what pleases you with them. Some day you'll pull out a worn out, charred up old Rev Pipe and some guy will gasp at it and spew a torrent of scorn at you for actually smoking the thing.

"Do you know what those are worth thee days?"

"I bought it when he was selling them to smokers, not collectors".

 

[the rev]

There's art, there's craft, there's beauty and there's collectability. These things may all intersect at once, or not. If all of these things do intersect with a pipe, do you smoke it? If some do but others do not, do you smoke it? Which of these is more important in making a pipe desireable for smoking, for not smoking?

Slippery slope. It would be easy to say nobody in their right mind would smoke a pristine Bo Nordh, but there are already so many examples of just that very thing happening. Clearly the answer is, there is no clear answer.

The answer for me, personally, is, buy the coolest, neatest looking pipes that you can comfortably afford, and do what pleases you with them. Some day you'll pull out a worn out, charred up old Rev Pipe and some guy will gasp at it and spew a torrent of scorn at you for actually smoking the thing.

"Do you know what those are worth thee days?"

"I bought it when he was selling them to smokers, not collectors".

thanks for that, it made me smile, and encouraged me. Some day I hope my pipes will be collectable quality. I am putting as much effort into them as I can. Just wish I could carve six days a week, I would get better so much faster. I remember when I first started jiu jitsu, six days a week, and once and a while twice a day. I am trying to be a bit more balanced now, as my wife has put up with enough of my compulsive disorder.

rev

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Rev, though I see the main purpose of a pipe as a smoking instrument, I know you feel it can fulfill that function as well as be an expression of high art. Puff Daddy's definition for a pipe's attraction seems nearly perfect. Different cultures have made their art out of many different things, and to say that we can't designate a pipe as art first and function second is an attempt to deny what is already fact.

I didn't mean to say that art pipes cannot be great smokers. But for me pipes, though they can be inexpressibly beautiful, must function. If I'm to pay hundreds or thousands for one, it would need to be an excellent smoker.

 

[KevinM]

I already got flamed for commenting on a similar post. So I'm pretty much asbestos.

My personal "like" is for traditional pipes with some individualizing twist. For example, I have quite a few Dublins, ranging from perfect execution of the traditional shape to the work of Italian carvers where you have to look twice to see, "Oh, yeah, I guess that's a Dub spinoff." But all of them are easily and enjoyably smoked.

To me, there comes some point at which design simply becomes gratuitous embellishment for which I have no need or interest. I'd also say that simple smokability isn't an adequate test of over-design. I've seen lots of over-designed pipes that can be smoked. Sure you can carve a pipe that's a foot long with two bowls. What you can't do is carry it in your shirt pocket. Excesses in size, shape and whimsical carving quickly diminish the functionalility of a pipe and with it the pleasure of use in my opinion.

Disclaimer: The above is not intended as a restriction on anyone's right to admire wretched excess. I remember when people admired cars with tail fins. Fads and fashions come and go. Utility and craftsmanship endure.

 

[the rev]

"admire wretched excess" and that is meant to be a neutral statement? perhaps your asbestosness is not because of your opinion that traditional pipes are better, which I have no problem with, but rather your denigration of others enjoyment of something other?

In my opinion there are a number of things that make a perfect pipe, and I will list them in order of importance:

1. smoke-ability
2. individual aesthetic
3. utilitarian usage
4. representational individuality


If it doesn't smoke well it isn't a pipe. I can smoke from a coke can, but it isn't nice, so its not a pipe

If I do not like the pipe, (like for me I find pokers and panels to be ugly) then I don't want it

I want different pipes for different things. So I may want a big bowled but light nose warmer for my shop pipe, and I may like a big crazy looking freehand thing in my backyard. I may want something a bit more flashy, yet easily transportable like a Wallenstein maybe for when I am sitting at the coffee shop, a story pipe if you will.

And I want a pipe that in someway reflects who I am. I am not a traditional guy. Though I wear standard work wear and converse allstars, I also have a crazy beard, I have had bleached spiked hair, purple pompadours, have my share of tattoos ect. I don't think a billiard represents me.

Therefore, there is nothing wretched about my pipe preference, I just like a lot of unorthodox pipes. As to your car analogy, I love the volkswagon thing, and my favorite car of all time is a 62 Chevy impala. And if I could afford it, I would drive an old fendered chevy truck with the rounded back window for my work mobile. All of these are cars with utility, and style unique to my preferences.

I do not think you are boring because you may like the bulldog or billiard. Nor do I think you lack any imagination or personal style. I just believe that you like me want a pipe that is enjoyable for you on both an artistic and utilitarian level.

rev

 

[Puff Daddy]

I dunno, I always thought perfection was more along the lines of taking a simple shape and making it, well, perfect. You know, elegant perfect. Those overtly creative shapes and expressions can be fun and unique, but archetypal perfection trumps all, IMHO.

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[the rev]

and that is a perfectly acceptable and subjective opinion.

rev

 

[Harlock999]

I dunno, I always thought perfection was more along the lines of taking a simple shape and making it, well, perfect. You know, elegant perfect. Those overtly creative shapes and expressions can be fun and unique, but archetypal perfection trumps all, IMHO.

I like this (surprise).
But I also like some art pipes, which for me, are more "art" than "pipe", due to superfluous (yet beautiful) flourishes that go far beyond what is necessary in a pipe.
I feel the same about Giant Steps era Coltrane, (sacrilege, I know!).
Archetypal perfection, as achieved by S.Bang, Ilsted etc. is all the more impressive because of the fact that they've proven that they can make a perfect bulldog (for example), not once, but repeatedly, and still bring something new to the table each time.
It could be that by skipping the classics and heading directly into the avant garde, some of the newer, younger carvers are missing some of the elementary fundamentals.

 

[Puff Daddy]

and that is a perfectly acceptable and subjective opinion.

rev

Yup. Kind of sums up the way these discussions must always end. It's always in the eye of the beholder. Jackson ******* or Renoir, which one is better? Both, either, neither. All acceptable answers.

 

[the rev]

I dunno, I always thought perfection was more along the lines of taking a simple shape and making it, well, perfect. You know, elegant perfect. Those overtly creative shapes and expressions can be fun and unique, but archetypal perfection trumps all, IMHO.

I like this (surprise).
But I also like some art pipes, which for me, are more "art" than "pipe", due to superfluous (yet beautiful) flourishes that go far beyond what is necessary in a pipe.
I feel the same about Giant Steps era Coltrane, (sacrilege, I know!).
Archetypal perfection, as achieved by S.Bang, Ilsted etc. is all the more impressive because of the fact that they've proven that they can make a perfect bulldog (for example), not once, but repeatedly, and still bring something new to the table each time.
It could be that by skipping the classics and heading directly into the avant garde, some of the newer, younger carvers are missing some of the elementary fundamentals.

I am far from young, but I am new to pipe making. I am however making both classics and avant garde pipes, because I value the skills, and craftsmanship of the classics. However, we are not talking about "skill of the carver" but rather the love of the pipe, and its validity.

rev

 

[Puff Daddy]

It could be that by skipping the classics and heading directly into the avant garde, some of the newer, younger carvers are missing some of the elementary fundamentals.

That's a really good point.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Ya gotta remember Rev, we're talking about a lot of makers here. Indies, established, new, old, cobs....

Just kidding bout that last one, threw that in to see if Rob was paying attention.

 

[the rev]

Ya gotta remember Rev, we're talking about a lot of makers here. Indies, established, new, old, cobs....

Just kidding bout that last one, threw that in to see if Rob was paying attention.

puff, you need to remember that the world revolves around me

booya

rev

 

[Puff Daddy]

puff, you need to remember that the world revolves around me

booya

rev

:lol: that's right, forgot, Socal guy :lol!:

 

[Dutch]

I had a lady friend over at my place visiting awhile back, and she was admiring my pipe collection. The thing she stated that stuck out in my mind the most, was something about them being made from wood, but yet there are so many different shapes.

Sometimes, when you get into a hobby or pastime really deep, your tastes begin to change, and you begin to appreciate aspects of something in a different way, simply because your knowledge base has increased dramatically.

For instance, I understand now why vulcanite is a superior stem material to lucite, however as in the beginning, I appreciate the fact that lucite doesn't oxidize.

Another aspect that I think about, is how difficult some shapes are to execute for a pipe maker. This makes me appreciate the beauty of the pipe, and the skill of the maker, as well as the pride in being it's caretaker.

Stephen Downie is a pipe carver who is "way out there" with his imagination and designs. Guys like that have the imagination to do much bigger things than make pipes, and I would never make any comments that would denegrate him or his fantastic work.

In reality, we should all be glad we still live in a country with an economy that can support the sales of pipes that range in the thousands.

No matter how ugly you might think a particular pipe might be, there is someone somewhere, still making a standard billiard or dublin available to you at a very reasonable price. I think the hobby would be very boring, were those the only shapes available.