High-End Beauty

[Harlock999]

High end? Yes, to most.
Beautiful? Yes, to most.
Perfect? Close.

 

[the rev]

high end? yes to most

beautiful? apparently not to many

good smoke? apparently one of the best

rev

 

[KevinM]

"admire wretched excess" and that is meant to be a neutral statement? perhaps your asbestosness is not because of your opinion that traditional pipes are better, which I have no problem with, but rather your denigration of others enjoyment of something other?


I do not think you are boring because you may like the bulldog or billiard. Nor do I think you lack any imagination or personal style. I just believe that you like me want a pipe that is enjoyable for you on both an artistic and utilitarian level.
rev

Rev -- You're being a wee bit slippery here, because you are making an attempt to manage the method of discussion -- i.e., It's ok to say some things in expressing your opinion, but not others, and I'm here to tell you which is which, the better to appear "neutral." But if you ask me which pipe designs I dislike and why, it is not hostle for me to plainly address the "why?" in my reply. The question itself assumes responders will not be neutral. So I'd say that "wretched excess" is an okay phrase in this context, because it offers no denigration to the pipester, just the style of the pipe. And it communicates -- readers do not wonder, "What on earth does he mean by that? I suppose someone could reply, "Sheesh, Kevin, I really like wretched excess." So far, no one has.

The billiard and Dublin designs I admire have often been characterized as "boring." But as you said, I don't take that as a reference to me -- though at times just possibly it is -- but to the style. I've replied on occasion that, "I like boring that is done really, really well." If you and others who don't share my view like this all-purpose reply you may wish to edit it to, "I like wretched excess if it is done really, really well." Which I admit is possible.

I generally agree that discussions best avoid explicitly personal responses, but cautioning against any colorful turn of phrase lest someone take offense pales a conversation, in my experience. Then again, I was raised in an extended Irish family bound together by fondness for cheerfully insulting each other. Maybe that's whence my asbestosness came. (good word, rev)


P.S. That "modified blowfish" is a terrible design imho. Notice the shot looking down the bowl, particularly the difference in wall thickness. I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out. Also I wonder where the airhole hits the bowl. If you're looking for something just to serve as a conversation piece, maybe . . .

 

[Anonymous]

by skipping the classics and heading directly into the avant garde, some of the newer,
younger carvers are missing some of the elementary fundamentals.

by skipping the classics and heading directly into the avant garde, some of the newer,
younger carvers are missing some of evading the elementary fundamentals. :twisted:

:cat: :face: :study:

 

[the rev]

it is actually a reverse calabash which are renowned for their cool dry smoke.

As to your comments, you brought up the asbestos issue. And I was explaining why people react the way they do. Because you say things that are insulting to my tastes, and you don't qualify it as your opinion. You speak as though you are telling the objective truth, when the fact is, everything you are saying is completely subjective. Which is fine. I personally don't like dublins or billiards. That is a completely personal choice, and taste. I own my own opinion. I don't say they are snoringly boring. And if I did, I sure wouldn't wonder why people like yourself would get riled up. We are not sitting in your living room over a bottle of scotch, and ribbing each other.

In the end preference is a personal and subjective thing, and to act like ones opinion is wrong because it doesn't happen to be yours seems a bit elitist to me. I don't respond well to elitism. So you can have any kind of conversation you like. But I am not one to sit back and allow you to denigrate my aesthetic without taking up an argument.

rev

 

[Rad Davis]

P.S. That "modified blowfish" is a terrible design imho. Notice the shot looking down the bowl, particularly the difference in wall thickness. I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out. Also I wonder where the airhole hits the bowl.

This entire statement is ridiculous. You have no idea how a pipe will smoke from looking at pics on the internet.

Everyone has shapes that they just don't like, and that's fine. But to denigrate the smokability of a pipe just because you don't care for the shape, or because you think you're some kind of self appointed "expert" is ludicrous.


Rad

 

[the rev]

and I thought Rad was gonna chew me out

rev

 

[MisterE]

I didn't really see "wretched excess" used in the spirit of of a put down but rather an indicator of the polar opposite of his personal tastes. Interpretation of it would seem to fall within the earlier "eye of the beholder" parameter.

I like simple, perfectly executed designs myself. That usually results in a pipe which meets the criteria of smokability, practicality, and elegance. On the other hand, my budget doesn't allow me to contemplate many Chonowitsches so my tastes more likely reflect my means.

 

[KevinM]

P.S. That "modified blowfish" is a terrible design imho. Notice the shot looking down the bowl, particularly the difference in wall thickness. I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out. Also I wonder where the airhole hits the bowl.

This entire statement is ridiculous. You have no idea how a pipe will smoke from looking at pics on the internet.

Rad

Speaking of ridiculous . . .

Of course you can, nor does it take a high level of expertise to do so. That's why pipers seek out particular shapes and sizes of bowls. It's why billiards have thin-walled bowls and pots have thicker walls. etcetc.

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Pictures only tell whether or not you like the pipe's appearance. I think to know how a particular pipe smokes a person needs to smoke that pipe, perhaps repeatedly. Wall thickness, for instance, is part of the pipe's design. I don't think that it can be argued successfully that it influences how the pipe smokes.

A chamber that can allow the tobacco to burn and a good draw make a good smoker. But this isn't something apparent from a picture.

 

[Slide]

Sheesh, Kevin, I really like wretched excess.

It has at times been a large part of my life :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Rad Davis]

P.S. That "modified blowfish" is a terrible design imho. Notice the shot looking down the bowl, particularly the difference in wall thickness. I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out. Also I wonder where the airhole hits the bowl.

This entire statement is ridiculous. You have no idea how a pipe will smoke from looking at pics on the internet.

Rad

Speaking of ridiculous . . .

Of course you can, nor does it take a high level of expertise to do so. That's why pipers seek out particular shapes and sizes of bowls. It's why billiards have thin-walled bowls and pots have thicker walls. etcetc.

Well, that explanation makes no sense.

Like I said, for you to look at pics on the internet and then declare, "I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out." is ridiculous.

You simply have no way of knowing anything at all about the pipe except its shape without seeing the actual pipe and not just pics.

Rad

 

[Kyle Weiss]

*smelling rage-quitting fumes* :lol:

Without throwing too much into the fray for repetition, PeeDee, Yak, Rev and Harlock all kind of mesh together for my general stance.

I like certain art pipes. I like smokable pipes. I've had pipes that were supposedly designed to smoke but didn't particularly well, so I would guess that there's art pipes that smoke tremendously.

Like what you smoke and smoke what you like.

Love, The Internet.

8)

 

[MisterE]

More than once I've gotten a pipe that I really liked the looks of but ended up being a crappy smoker. Well drilled, nice dimensions etc. The reverse is also true. You just can't say for sure until you actually smoke it.

I do believe that the more you just plain like a pipe the more patience you'll have with it. I have one pipe that was made for me that I desperately wanted to like, but alas, it rendered only a searing hot, chemically-flavored smoke. I stuck with it much longer than I would have hadn't I liked it so.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I do believe that the more you just plain like a pipe the more patience you'll have with it.

:cheers: Sometimes I feel that the more someone pays for a pipe the more expectation they have for it, too. Takes all kinds.

8)

 

[Slide]

P.S. That "modified blowfish" is a terrible design imho. Notice the shot looking down the bowl, particularly the difference in wall thickness. I'll bet it smokes hot, wet and will burn out. Also I wonder where the airhole hits the bowl.

This entire statement is ridiculous. You have no idea how a pipe will smoke from looking at pics on the internet.

Rad

Speaking of ridiculous . . .

Of course you can, nor does it take a high level of expertise to do so. That's why pipers seek out particular shapes and sizes of bowls. It's why billiards have thin-walled bowls and pots have thicker walls. etcetc.

Help me out here. I am no carver, just a smoker who enjoys pipes for their use and their art.

Doesn't the bowl size, depth and the drilling have more to do with how a pipe smokes than the pipes external shape?

Is not the importance of shape more a matter of what is pleasing to your eye and hand?

This is asked in all sincerity.

I realize the wall thickness can lead you to believe a pipe is a cooler smoker. But how hot it smokes seems to depend more on airflow and puffing style. I have some freehands that you could pour pour molten metal in and hold. But if you tried you could probably smoke it at such a rate to begin a burn out.

 

[KevinM]

Doesn't the bowl size, depth and the drilling have more to do with how a pipe smokes than the pipes external shape?

Is not the importance of shape more a matter of what is pleasing to your eye and hand?

This is asked in all sincerity.

Yes, in a word. And I've learned here that most pipers associate the traditional styles exclusively with visual and tactile appeal.

However, my thought is that the traditional styles also had something to do with the use of the pipe. They weren't invented long ago. Clenchers went for bents. Those fond of broad ribbon cuts tended toward a short, squat bowl, like a pot. The ever-popular billiard is a sturdy all-around choice, depending on diameter and depth of bowl. The Dublin, derived from the billiard, I think, offers a conical bowl, suited to burning its contents to the bottom. The Canadian, with its long shank, offers a cooler smoke. The poker . . . well, I guess that's enough for the point.

I'm suggesting, IOW, that the traditional styles aren't just carvers' stylistic flourishes, but were found to offer advantages to the smoker. I'd compare this to varying styles of mouthpieces. The P-lip isn't a styling twist. It's supposed to provide some with a way to avoid tongue bite a/o hot smokes.

I don't see why the idea that visible design features affect performance is astonishing to some. Take a billiard in one hand, an apple in thr other. Could there possibly be any advantage in smoking the pipe to move some of the briar a bit south to the bottom of the bowl (apple) instead of evenly distributing it around the bowl (billiard)? How can someone just stop at the initial idea that this is just some carver's wholly subjective personal preference?


I realize the wall thickness can lead you to believe a pipe is a cooler smoker. But how hot it smokes seems to depend more on airflow and puffing style.

Yes, again. Obvious features of a pipe can be circumvented by the style of the smoker, in addition to other factors. But you can look at a pipe and see how it is designed to behave (or misbehave). Choosing a pipe is like choosing a dog, I'd say. The breed has a certain character, but there's variety among individuals and a lot depends on the capabilities of the master, as any Pit Bull or Doberman owner will tell you.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep.

Certain designs are time-tested favorites because the chamber proportions they entail just plain work. And work well. In addition to being aesthetically pleasing -- both to look at and to hold.

A billiard performs differently to a bent bulldog because they're two different designs. Even with the same tobacco, they're two different smokes.

I make no blanket indictment of "modern" pipes, but all of mine are old, standard designs. And they don't disappoint. Which I cannot say of any number of "modern" designs I've gotten, smoked for a while and passed along.

:cat: :face: :study:

 

[i.keenum]

You know what pipes I like ? All of them. Guess I have a masterful taste in pipes. Send all the uglies my easy I won't whine.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Pipe ****.