I know Blue Ribands are all the rage...but,

[thedeep]

I thought this was over the top! http://www.ebay.com/itm/231002210309?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648

 

[docwatson]

Yikes!!! rob cooper does it again. Must be his charm.  

 

[Harlock999]

Hey, I just had to have it...
You know what I mean?8) 

 

[riff raff]

It is steep, but I've not seen Blue Riband Extraordinaire and Straight Grain stamping in a long time. In fact, I can't recall the last time I did see a Comoys with that pedigree. Blue Ribands are usually good for $250 or so in that condition. Figure double the value for Extraordinaire and another double for Straight Grain and you are pretty close to that winning bid. I also don't really recall seeing a Canadian Blue Riband. Typically Blue Riband or Straight Grain pipes are small, the Extraordinaire stamp/size is somewhat unique (by my limited Comoys experience). It's not in great shape, I'd give that a 5 out of 10? Someone must have really wanted that grade combination. The Chinese are reported to be buying up all of the high grade pipes, perhaps this is heading to the Far East?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Comoys-Blue-Riband-Extraordinaire-Straight-Grain-Canadian-Pipe-COOPERSARK-NR-/00/s/NjY1WDk5OQ==/z/zzEAAOxyHE5RwN0f/$T2eC16h,!)cE9s4Pvm88BRwN0eypCQ~~60_57.JPG

 

[docwatson]

Al,
I know the Chinese are into pipes big time and sell them over there for quadruple the price they pay here. I know because I have sold some to them, only to see the pipe on their website for that amount. Amazing.
However, I've seen the market over there for Ashton, and Dunhill and some Castello, but was thinking that their market is more in line for new creations, artistic pipes, with smooth flowing lines, no sharp points, made by American small production pipe makers which has something to do with their culture. I spoke with one of the largest Chinese dealers who related that to me.
Maybe you have seen them buy Comoy, GBD, etc. but I haven't. If they are also into these older vintage briars the prices will increase for sure. I guess we'll have to observe what sells where.
Your observation about Blue Riband Extraordinaire is right on. Plenty of Ribands around but not with the extra stamping of Extraordinaire and Straight Grain.
You do your homework really well my friend.
 

 

[riff raff]

Thanks Doc, read and learn I guess.

Max Engel (pipes2smoke.com) had an very interesting essay on Chinese collectors a few months ago that syncs what your observations were. For folks that haven't read it, I'll post below.

China and Pipes:

At the Chicago Pipe Show Chinese, buyers have been signal affecting the higher end pipe market for the past few years. Last week I asked for comments, suggestions, anecdotes etc. and have been somewhat overwhelmed by the responses. So below is a mix of my observations, those of others and their comments, and what the continuing effects are likely to be.

For the past few years, the Chinese have been heavy buyers of higher end pipes. Their buying is non discriminate and uninformed. They are buying name and selling on such. I know of an American made pipe that sold new for $ 800.00 and was later sold on a Chinese site used for $ 2,200.00. Some might ask don’t the Chinese buyers know about checking values on Ebay or elsewhere on the Internet. Actually they don’t.

The majority of Chinese with disposable income are not conversant in English, The Chinese YUAN is a not a freely convertible currency therefore most Chinese do not have international credit cards, VISA or Mastercard & cannot use PayPal. They are effectively insulated from the world pipe market and forced to buy through local sources. E.G. Castellos sell for 15-20% more in China that the rest of the world.

Further compounding the issue is that most cannot invest in stocks, bonds, etc. so tangibles are their only choice. Real estate, cars, Louis Vuitton luggage, jewelry, and whatever else denotes status. Pipes being one of many articles of validation.

Pipes in China are akin to the Dutch Tulip Bubble of 1624. Tulips were new and rare when introduced around 1620. Same as high end pipes in China today. Holland was a rich nation with a rapidly rising middle class that was seeking validation and status. Tulips filled this need.

At its peak in 1637, some bulbs sold for 5,000 Guilders, more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. When the bubble burst that 5,000 Guilder bulb dropped to 50 guilders, if there was a buyer. The buying of Tulips was about status and not about intrinsic value or worth.

Indiscriminate Chinese pipe buying has led to significant price increases, a shortage for other markets and some pipe makers en course to being depended on a single market, China! At the last few, Chicago’s some higher end makers literally sold their whole stock to the Chinese by Thursday morning. Simply put US dealers & collectors were not even offered the pipes.

Many Russian makers have pretty much abandoned the US market because they can get far higher prices in China. Simultaneously the demand for their pipes has dropped in the USA & Europe, a chicken and egg issue.

Tom Eltang once said to me,” just because somebody is a good pipe maker doesn’t mean he is a good businessman”, very true. One Danish maker who I regularly buy from had sold all his pipes to the Chinese on Wend. Night. He said this was okay because he would make me some pipes later. This after emailing me and I presume some other dealers that he would have pipes available at Chicago. Am I upset, no, disappointed, mildly. Will I buy for him again, unlikely. This is becoming an all to common practice. But some pipe makers acknowledge that the US market made their reputations and to abandon it would be bad business.

Joe Mahgaratz wrote me the following “At the 2011, show I was me with Peter Heeschen on the Friday night of the show in the smoking tent talking about pipes in general, when this little China doll came walking up to our table…she was with an entourage of 6 Chinese as their interpreter. She says to Uncle Pete "Mister Heeschen please to have private view of pipe in your room in an hour please"! I'm thinking to myself well there goes most of his pipes for this show!! Then Peter says to the China doll", you may have a private viewing of my pipes at 10 O'clock tomorrow morning (Saturday) in the Mega Center".

Later that same day another colleague saw a Chinese pay out a great wad of cash to a Danish maker and then picks up the pipes with both hand and just dumps them into his roll round suitcase. Just another commodity to buy and sell.

Rick Newcombe wrote me “. …have mixed feelings…As the owner of a sizable collection of high-grade pipes that have increased in value, I like the high prices. However, as a friend of many pipe collectors, I wish the prices would come down. As a collector who loves to buy new pipes, I wish the prices would come down.”

Another very knowledgeable pipe colleague of ours related the following exchange with a high end Danish maker in Chicago,

“how many years do you plan to continue making pies’
“oh, around twenty”
“well the next five you will do very well but the fifteen after will be very hard”.

Depending how long the Chinese distort the market I think that about sums it up.

 

[ZuluCollector]

Like the rest of you, I was following that auction, and I was very surprised at the selling price. It is the highest price for a Blue Riband that I have seen paid on eBay previously. I try to watch them all.

I own a 309 Extraordinaire Blue Riband, myself, that is in better condition and that has better grain than the pipe that Coopersark sold. That having been said, that particular pipe is anomalous in that it had a Straight Grain stamping in addition to being a Comoy Blue Riband. That, and the inlaid C style, indicates that the pipe was a very early production pipe, much earlier than Rob Cooper indicated in his description. It is probably a War Era pipe, making it quite rare. I very much doubt that the buyer knows this, however, but I could be wrong.

A Straight Grain stamping by itself isn't particularly remarkable. In fact, it indicates a pipe that would have been a Specimen Straight Grain except for some visible flaw or problem. They are literally seconds. However, the fact that this pipe is also a Blue Riband makes it unusual. By the way, all 309 (Canadian) shapes are Extraordinaires by definition. There are no 309 shapes that are not Extraordinaire. That is the designation within which the 309 was cataloged and sold.

I wonder, too, whether the pipe was sold to a Chinese buyer. I think it is likelier that it was sold to a Japanese buyer. They are much more interested in the older, rarer English-made classics. I hasten to add that 309s and 309 XXLs do not become available every day. I bought both of mine from Tony Soderman in a direct transaction because Tony thought they should be in my collection, versus his. I was very surprised he sold the XXL because his passion is the very long Canadian and the XXL Canadian in the Blue Riband stamping is rare beyond rare. Here is a picture of the two 309s - one an Extraordinaire XL and the other an XXL extraordinaire with silver. The one with silver has the extremely rare shank-top stamping. Both are early production pipes.

On another note, I prevailed in an Italian eBay auction this week for a Blue Riband 440 - a shape I have been seeking for some 6 years very actively. This is the larger version of the 283, a shape I own now. I would have bought the pipe in any of the Comoy lines - Tradition, Straight Grain, etc. These are just not available. This one was barely smoked and in wonderful condition. I had decided that I would pay well beyond what I would usually pay due to the rarity of the shape. I knew I wouldn't come across another one for quite some time. As it turns out, although I paid almost double what I typically have paid for other shapes, I didn't pay nearly what I was prepared to pay if I had to. The lesson here is that if a pipe fills an important slot in a collection, a collector will pony up. Not every day, but for a pipe in great condition - absolutely.

Here is the 440 CBR:

I hope that the Chinese do not take a strong interest in collecting old British wood and that their interests continue to be in expensive, new, artisan pipes. I simply would not be able to compete, resource-wise, if they started collecting pipes like the Blue Ribands.

 

[pepesdad1]

Wow...just Wow...talk about some beautiful pipes. Makes me glad I invested in Comoy's way back when.

 

[Harlock999]

Hopefully the NSA was not spying on BoB,
or else Edward Snowden would have spilled the beans
to the Chinese about how we're hoarding all the Blue Ribands...

 

[monbla256]

Hopefully the NSA was not spying on BoB,
or else Edward Snowden would have spilled the beans
to the Chinese about how we're hoarding all the Blue Ribands...

They are. They're working on the "Comoy Connection" national security wise as I type. We all will get visits from those "men in black" soon! :twisted: 

 

[riff raff]

By the way, all 309 (Canadian) shapes are Extraordinaires by definition. There are no 309 shapes that are not Extraordinaire. That is the designation within which the 309 was cataloged and sold.



Here is the 440 CBR:

I hope that the Chinese do not take a strong interest in collecting old British wood and that their interests continue to be in expensive, new, artisan pipes. I simply would not be able to compete, resource-wise, if they started collecting pipes like the Blue Ribands.

I hope you are right Neill, acquiring certain Comoys shapes is difficult enough.

Thanks for the 309 Extraordinaire detail, I did not know that.

The 440 is also a favorite of mine, anything in that 238, 4XX line just appeals to me. What a beautiful 440, Blue Riband no less, you were forunate to find that one! I recently restored a 498 Extraordinaire, but the grain on it pales in comparison. What a wonderful addition to your collection.

 

[ZuluCollector]

Thanks, Al. I saw your 498 and was really quite envious. I love the shape. You have several pipes I wish I owned!

 

[Sasquatch]

From a pipe making point of view, the grain on the pipe in the OP is pretty awesome, and pretty rare. A block that long, yielding straight grain in the right orientation to get that pipe.... very rare.

There was a boxed anniversary-type Castello on smokingpipes a few months ago, with better overall grain, probably the best grained long straight pipe I've ever seen, and maybe one of the best ever made, and it had a tag of well over 1000 bucks, and I thought well deserved.

 

[daveinlax]

A quick look at the feedback shows it went to a on and off pipe board guy from NY. :shock: