Idea for a "Recommendations" resource

[Bub]

Good luck with your project Crowdog
http://www.wimp.com/buildsinstrument/

 

[Puff Daddy]

Yak nailed it :cheers:

 

[Harlock999]

The sad thing is that no one has "nailed" anything, because it doesn't seem like anyone is actually reading the posts, or "listening" to what anyone else is trying to say. And, if it's all garbage in/out, why isn't there a requirement of a satisfactory grade on some sort of pipe smoking competency test in order to post tobacco reviews? The "experts" can administer the test in order to keep all the newbees and poseurs from posting about things they obviously don't understand. I tend to self regulate when it comes to posting about tobacco, because I realize that my knowledge is extremely limited in that regard, but at the same time I would loathe myself for indiscriminately shooting down a novice for asking a "silly" question about vintage guitars or amplifiers (something I have expertise in). I guess what's really bugging me is the lack of real communication and "brotherly" understanding around here lately. And yes, I know how new I am to this, how I've only been hanging around here for a month or so, and maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's just that it was SO easy to REALLY like this forum when I found it. Maybe it was just an illusion, or maybe I just need to grow up. Hopefully I won't wake up to regret volunteering my opinions, or maybe I'll be exiled to a forum more my speed, like The Society of Nice Guys who are supportive and offer constructive advice to each other. I think the average guy gets enough grief out there in the real world, and it seems like the nasty spirit in which this harmless thread unraveled was not at all necessary. I know I'm setting myself up for the inevitable snarky reply, and that's what's so surprising, because I didn't think this was THAT kind of forum. SIGH...

 

[beaupipe]

The sad thing is that no one has "nailed" anything, because it doesn't seem like anyone is actually reading the posts, or "listening" to what anyone else is trying to say. And, if it's all garbage in/out, why isn't there a requirement of a satisfactory grade on some sort of pipe smoking competency test in order to post tobacco reviews? The "experts" can administer the test in order to keep all the newbees and poseurs from posting about things they obviously don't understand. I tend to self regulate when it comes to posting about tobacco, because I realize that my knowledge is extremely limited in that regard, but at the same time I would loathe myself for indiscriminately shooting down a novice for asking a "silly" question about vintage guitars or amplifiers (something I have expertise in). I guess what's really bugging me is the lack of real communication and "brotherly" understanding around here lately. And yes, I know how new I am to this, how I've only been hanging around here for a month or so, and maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's just that it was SO easy to REALLY like this forum when I found it. Maybe it was just an illusion, or maybe I just need to grow up. Hopefully I won't wake up to regret volunteering my opinions, or maybe I'll be exiled to a forum more my speed, like The Society of Nice Guys who are supportive and offer constructive advice to each other. I think the average guy gets enough grief out there in the real world, and it seems like the nasty spirit in which this harmless thread unraveled was not at all necessary. I know I'm setting myself up for the inevitable snarky reply, and that's what's so surprising, because I didn't think this was THAT kind of forum. SIGH...

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I've been hanging out here a little bit longer than you (though I'm not a heavy poster, because I write all day in my real job), and I was more than a little surprised at the tone of the "feedback" provided. But so be it.

For my own part, I'll encourage you to do whatever helps you make sense of the great diversity of tobacco currently available. If it turns out that a compilation of recommendations helps other smokers who may find themselves paralyzed by choice, then so much the better. If it also turns out that others criticize your list as hokum and hogwash, that's fine, too. That's the price you sometimes have to pay when you put yourself out there among the wolves.

 

[bluedigital]

Hear hear, Chris I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also found the BoB a wonderful easygoing community who seemed very supportive of one another. But there has been an ominous cloud of doom circling about as of late. Pity though I was really beginning to like this place. CD I am very supportive of your venture and it's exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, to guide me as a relative newbie, with regards to my upcoming baccy purchases.

I certainly hope your zeal has not been tainted by the naysayers and that you go ahead with compiling your idea .... whether it be on this board or not.

 

[Trout Bum]

The sad thing is that no one has "nailed" anything, because it doesn't seem like anyone is actually reading the posts, or "listening" to what anyone else is trying to say. And, if it's all garbage in/out, why isn't there a requirement of a satisfactory grade on some sort of pipe smoking competency test in order to post tobacco reviews? The "experts" can administer the test in order to keep all the newbees and poseurs from posting about things they obviously don't understand. I tend to self regulate when it comes to posting about tobacco, because I realize that my knowledge is extremely limited in that regard, but at the same time I would loathe myself for indiscriminately shooting down a novice for asking a "silly" question about vintage guitars or amplifiers (something I have expertise in). I guess what's really bugging me is the lack of real communication and "brotherly" understanding around here lately. And yes, I know how new I am to this, how I've only been hanging around here for a month or so, and maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's just that it was SO easy to REALLY like this forum when I found it. Maybe it was just an illusion, or maybe I just need to grow up. Hopefully I won't wake up to regret volunteering my opinions, or maybe I'll be exiled to a forum more my speed, like The Society of Nice Guys who are supportive and offer constructive advice to each other. I think the average guy gets enough grief out there in the real world, and it seems like the nasty spirit in which this harmless thread unraveled was not at all necessary. I know I'm setting myself up for the inevitable snarky reply, and that's what's so surprising, because I didn't think this was THAT kind of forum. SIGH...

Very well stated, Harlock, I completely agree.

I really went back and forth about whether or not to post my opinion here. Well, here it is: I personally find this thread very upsetting, and that was all the way back on page one. The fact that it has "unravelled" to this point is very difficult for me to understand. To be honest, it has really bothered me. I find it odd that crow set out with nothing but the best of intentions, with an idea that I think is not only honorable, in that he was willing to do the work, but actually a great idea. Why not a general reference guide to some of the more popular blends from each genre, as recommended by some of the members here? Cool, great idea, go for it, would seem to be the type of feedback I would expect. And even if it was an abysmal idea, one that had been tried and failed many times, how about some TACT in explaining that? Maybe even just a modicum! I mean WOW. Really? I just don't get it!

Heck, worst case scenario, it doesn't work as expected, for whatever reason. So what! Best case, everyone wins. I for one know I would have been very interested in such a resource/list of recommendations when I was starting out. Shoot, I would more than likely find it interesting as the somewhat-intermediate newb that I am right now! Gosh, I really just can't see what all the fuss is about!

BUT! In the spirit of Brothers of Briar, I say, go for it Crow!

By the way, I think that it is worth mentioning that seeing as how several members now have posted their concern regarding this, it just MIGHT be an indicator that something went awry here.

TB Over and Out!

 

[Tim_Haggerty]

How about running a short pretest? Solicit a small number of respondents (say, BoB members) and asking them to list their current 5 blends and put them in the categories you've delineated here.

After you receive a small sample -- say 50 respondents? you could run a cross tabulation on the results. Certainly not representative, but that's not the point, yet --

So if I looked at "Escudo" in the list, it could tell me that Escudo smokers also liked (for example) Odyssey, Commonwealth, Squadron Leader, in declining order of preference.

If it seemed to work as a guide, great. It does seem to me that the tobacco ordering pages at smokingpipes.com does something similar with the "People who bought X a;so bought Y" function.

If it doesn't add a level of information that cannot be duplicated elsewhere, so be it; models are models for that very reason.

Just my two cents.

 

[beebiz]

The sad thing is that no one has "nailed" anything, because it doesn't seem like anyone is actually reading the posts, or "listening" to what anyone else is trying to say. And, if it's all garbage in/out, why isn't there a requirement of a satisfactory grade on some sort of pipe smoking competency test in order to post tobacco reviews? The "experts" can administer the test in order to keep all the newbees and poseurs from posting about things they obviously don't understand. I tend to self regulate when it comes to posting about tobacco, because I realize that my knowledge is extremely limited in that regard, but at the same time I would loathe myself for indiscriminately shooting down a novice for asking a "silly" question about vintage guitars or amplifiers (something I have expertise in). I guess what's really bugging me is the lack of real communication and "brotherly" understanding around here lately. And yes, I know how new I am to this, how I've only been hanging around here for a month or so, and maybe I'm terribly naive, but it's just that it was SO easy to REALLY like this forum when I found it. Maybe it was just an illusion, or maybe I just need to grow up. Hopefully I won't wake up to regret volunteering my opinions, or maybe I'll be exiled to a forum more my speed, like The Society of Nice Guys who are supportive and offer constructive advice to each other. I think the average guy gets enough grief out there in the real world, and it seems like the nasty spirit in which this harmless thread unraveled was not at all necessary. I know I'm setting myself up for the inevitable snarky reply, and that's what's so surprising, because I didn't think this was THAT kind of forum. SIGH...

As far as I am concerned, you are definitely preaching to the choir here!!! The tone of this thread doesn't even slightly resemble the tone that I found on this board when I first joined. When I joined BoB, it appeared that the spirit of brotherhood abounded. But, it is certainly lacking in this thread!! Speaking as one who once thought I had found the best forum on the internet in BoB and had found a permanent home here, I certainly don't like what I'm seeing now!!! And, I know... I am more than welcome to head out the door! That much has been made clear!!

Crowdog... if you want to spend your time compiling a list such as you have outlined, go for it, my brother!! I am another one of those who would find and would have found such a list helpful when trying to figure out what would be on my very first pipe tobacco order. I too applaud your willingness to do the work and your desire to help out newbies!! Despite what you have been told, both are VERY commendable!!!! But, if you decided to 86 the whole idea after seeing how this thread has gone, I would completely understand... and, wouldn't blame you in the least!!!!

Oh... and, speaking of "garbage"... this thread appears to me to have "garbage" similar to that which is commonly found inside the Rubber Room!!!!!!!!!

I do hope that this post contains enough relative substance!!!

 

[LL]

Dear guys who have been (apparently) gravely offended,

A question:

If the OP's question was merely rhetorical---meaning it was really only a call for a chorus of encouragement---and nothing but such a response was acceptable, then what was the point of asking at all?

A look at the how the opinions fell out show a 100% correspondence according to experience. The new(er) guys think a tobacco recommendation database is a great idea, while those who have been around awhile---and seen such projects fizzle countless times---think it is not.

Hm.

Trout Bum --- If someone showed up at your guide service with a saltwater trolling rod, a 9/0 reel, and 130 pound test line, and declared their intention limit out on brook trout with it after an hour on the river, would you encourage them or not?

That's what I thought.

So, to those who think BoB is an unfriendly place because it can be counted on for straight talk, so be it. That's your prerogative. But I assure you there are many who prefer it for exactly that reason. "Getting along" on BoB has much more to do with deeply rooted personal respect between its members than being Feelgood Zone. The latter can be found in great abundance on the Net, while the former is rare indeed.

 

[beaupipe]

Dear guys who have been (apparently) gravely offended,


So, to those who think BoB is an unfriendly place because it can be counted on for straight talk, so be it.

If you believe that irony (the trope you're employing in the first line), and "straight talk" (the logic to which you're appealing in the last) have anything to do with each other, then it's time to go back to school.

Anyway, I'm properly chastened and will henceforth quietly observe the failures of the earliest BoB registrants so I may better understand my own limits. Thank you for setting me straight.

Perhaps the mods can make the registration dates in the profiles
REALLY, REALLY BIG so that it'll be easier for some of us simple folk to judge the credibility of the posters and hence the merit of the posts.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Perhaps the mods can make the registration dates in the profiles

They are there, appearing right under your avatar when you post.

This is sounding like a bunch of spoiled children crying, pretty pathetic actually. Snarky? You have a young guy who is new here, has maybe 30 posts under his belt, who asks about doing something that's been done ad nauseum and is basically told so by a guy with many years of experience; a guy who will forget more about pipes than most people will ever learn, and the answer is taken by this new guy and a few other new guys as mean spirited. Listen, nobody is being mean, and George (LL) is being honest and is being brotherly by being honest with you. You can hunt high and low across this country and you'll not find a handful of people who know more about pipes and pipe smoking than George. You'll also not find more than a handful of men who'll have the willingness and capacity to engage you in enlightened conversation on the subject. Take a look around here and on the other forums and see what the heavy hitters - the real industry insiders and big time collectors - think about the man. You may want to suck it up and actually listen a little here, you might learn something. Brotherhood and good conversation do not share the same parameters as condescending babbling slop; in other words, yanking your chain and telling you what a wonderful idea it is because it would be unbrotherly and unkind to utter even a single negative word. That notion is childish and unproductive and is not conversation, it's gibberish.

Brotherhood, treating each other with respect and as men. Maybe it's the young age of so many of the recently joined members, I dunno, but I kinda think that a guy who actually has a good bit of knowledge but chooses to withhold it and offer up a slap on the back instead is simply mocking you. I'd take the honest, educated opinion and listen closely, but that's just me, maybe what you guys want is a false show of perpetual niceties?

Anyhow, if you boys really think that you're going to walk in here with you peach fuzz chins and change the tone of this place because it's not politically correct enough or "Happy Happy Joy Joy" enough for your liking you're in for a bit of a shocker. The foundation here isn't of warm fuzzies, that's the stuff of little boys.

 

[puros_bran]

Has everyone in this thread went as crazy as me???

Damn.

 

[Anonymous]

Take this as old fart (62) cynicism if you like, but younger guys tend to have a different outlook on the world and the possibilities in it than older guys just by virtue of age-related optomism/idealism. It makes communication difficult sometimes.

I took a blue collar job after grad school because I realised I could never teach in a little, rural college as I had imagined. Even if a job in one opened, the first thing they'd want me to do would be to recruit students -- mills need grist. And the sad, stark fact of the matter was that 19 out of 20 of the students there (minimum) would end up selling shoes or working for a lawn care company after four years, a useless degree and a crushing debt load because the field was so overcrowded even then (1980) and jobs so competitive that, having to play catch-up ball as others were honing the skills they already had under their belts, they'd never make the cut. Dreams are great but facts are facts.

If you advise someone with a classical music dream to become a lawyer or a doctor, make a pile of money, buy the great instrument a working musician could never hope to afford and enjoy playing it in a community orchestra, you have made yourself a bitter enemy. By being honest.

Same issue in a more familiar context : a kid in highschool who dreams of playing in the NFL had better get himself into Alabama, USC, Ohio State or (&c.). And excel there. If he's going to a school with an enrollment of 2,000 imagining that he's preparing for a career in pro football (because they're taking him through the motions), he's got a rude awakening ahead. Once in a blue moon, it happens. But the liklihood of it approaches nil.

I don't see much difference here, where we've got a guy with a deep knowledge of pipes and 20 years of IT experience in the big leagues advising that nobody can use a computer to derive meaningful information from arbitrary, ideosyncratic impressions. This being an unacceptable idea, the argument hinges on arbitrary, ideosyncratic impressions somehow not being arbitrary, ideosyncratic impressions because they'd be high-quality ones.

But there are so many variables involved that that's all they can ever possibly be. That, in the opinion of people who had this hashed out down to the nth degree before there was a BoB board at all. I can tell you, as what passes for an honest man these days, that Embarcadero is the single best tobacco made by anybody, anywhere. But what good does that do you ? If you try it and don't like it, next to none. It's the single best tobacco on earth -- to me. You're a whole different story with a different set of sensory receptors.

My good, long-time, respected pipe friends love stuff I wouldn't smoke on a dare. To these guys, weedage like GH Curly Cut, McB Navy Flake and Orlik Golden Slices are the good stuff. To me, smoking them would be the equivalent of eating road kill.

Raw.

And that's what it boils down to, in the end.

:face:

Edit to add : and those are their favorites this year. A couple years ago the list was different. In a few more, it will be different again.