I'm a little confused

[Boxerbuddy]

Ok so as usual once i get into a new hobby I get obsessed with it and learn as much about it as i can as quickly as I can. So I've been looking at tons of pipes on a myriad of different websites and I've been a little confused.
I'm confused about the vastly different prices on pipes that look to be very similar.
I understand the difference between machine made and handmade and why handmades are more expensive, I'm talking about the difference between high end handmade pipes.
For example why does this Cornelius Maenz cost $1550

[/url][/img]


and this Rad Davis cost less than half as much at $625

[/url][/img]

By no way am I suggesting that anyone is price gouging or anything like that....I'm just trying to understand why 2 pipes that look to be of similar craftsmanship are so vastly different in price. I'm guessing the grain of the briar is the difference? But could that be the only reason for 1 to be more than double the price of the other?

 

[Sasquatch]

In this particular case, I'd say the Manz pipe has a better piece of briar. I'd have to see both pipes in hand, and 500 dollars worth of briar seems like a lot.

What this comes to a lot of times is perceived value. If a new pipe maker hits the scene and offers a pipe for 1500 bucks, people will say "Well, that's nice, but for 1500 bucks I could buy a Cornelius Manz (or a Todd Johnson, or a Tokutomi etc)"

That never happens in the first place because you can't just show up and make pipes like Manz. So that's the other side of the equation - people work a long time to make a name for themselves, consistently making superior quality pipes, and they get a reputation. It might be that in ten years, you can't get a Rad Davis for 500 bucks either.

Some makers have a reputation for a certain thing too - ultra thin stems, or an ultra awesome finish, or whatever.

Another aspect is that you are paying retail for the Manz (so what the pipemaker asked for the pipe + about 100%), whereas from Rad, you are usually buying from Rad.

Getting an exact, objective value on any given hand made pipe is really tough.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Great response, Sas. 8)

I always assumed it was like anything else, you paid for the maker's name to some degree, how many and of what kind of pipe is being made, quality and type of briar, style (is it something new and in-demand or a classic), difficulty of manufacture...etc...

...at this stage in the game, I have no business wantonly buying a $500 pipe, let alone a $1600 pipe. I'd have no idea what I was getting myself into. Though like you, boxer, I immerse myself into my hobbies almost obsessively. The route I'm taking with pipes is taste and how I can make my own, being the DIY sucker I am.

 

[WaydeG]

In this particular case, I'd say the Manz pipe has a better piece of briar. I'd have to see both pipes in hand, and 500 dollars worth of briar seems like a lot.

What this comes to a lot of times is perceived value. If a new pipe maker hits the scene and offers a pipe for 1500 bucks, people will say "Well, that's nice, but for 1500 bucks I could buy a Cornelius Manz (or a Todd Johnson, or a Tokutomi etc)"

That never happens in the first place because you can't just show up and make pipes like Manz. So that's the other side of the equation - people work a long time to make a name for themselves, consistently making superior quality pipes, and they get a reputation. It might be that in ten years, you can't get a Rad Davis for 500 bucks either.

Some makers have a reputation for a certain thing too - ultra thin stems, or an ultra awesome finish, or whatever.

Another aspect is that you are paying retail for the Manz (so what the pipemaker asked for the pipe + about 100%), whereas from Rad, you are usually buying from Rad.

Getting an exact, objective value on any given hand made pipe is really tough.

That's it in a nutshell.
Why does one guy pay for a Mercedes Benz and another guy happy with a 73 Ford F150? Ever try to load 20 bags of mulch in a Benz?
Why would somebody pay thousands of dollars for a baseball card while a family photo is priceless to one but worthless to another?
I'm sure it boils down to what collectable is important to you. I personally love my $5.95 MM cobs as well as my vintage GBDs and my Trevi. I'm enjoying my pipe hobby more for the tobacco than the pipes but everyone has their priorities. That doesn't mean that most of don't recognize beautiful work when we se it (like a Ferrari) but I'm certainly not going out and spending $1k+ on a pipe... or a Ferrari

Now a Shelby, that's another discussion.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

...not to mention, there's always the challenge of finding the next undiscovered "Ferrari of pipes," or an estate pipe that suddenly crosses your path for peanuts and is perhaps worth (historically/monetarily/artistically) quite a bit more. I doubt I'll ever be buzzing around eBay for pipes, too many gents elbowing that arena for me. I love cruising stores, antique shops and second-hand places for my stuff. With the occasional "new pipe splurge."

I have way too many expensive hobbies to justify applying a huge amount for a pipe, though BoB is a great place to vicariously enjoy it when other people do...pictures, stories, great accounts on how they smoke... and BoB is free*!

Pipes for me, are an adventure. Where I smoke them, how I acquire them, how I respond to them when I find them, what tobacco matches well with them...no matter if it's cobs, meerschaum, or sexy briars... hell, that's might be it for anyone, but with different sets of priorities here and there. As long as we're enjoying ourselves and not going into debt over it, to each his own. 8)

Okay, I'm getting too philosophically convoluted and drinking too much coffee...stupid coffee. :lol:



*Disclaimer: no, websites aren't free, and this is with great thanks to those that keep the bandwidth and forum running I thank humbly.

 

[jacko]

My 2 cents. Once you are in the $500+ market the line starts to blur in regards to how 'value' is defined. When you are talking about individual carvers such as the two in your post it becomes a game of how much they choose to price their work, likely based on what they can sell their work, not unlike any other kind of artists. Pricing is subjective and value is only seen in the eyes of the beholder. I would argue that cost of a pipe does not reflect its smoking qualities which is typically what a smoker looks for in a pipe. On the flip side, a collector may only look at the skill of the wood worker and weight the value based on artistic merits. Most folks you speak to who smoke pipes don't fall into into the latter category. I digress...

https://www.brothersofbriar.com/t4323-are-you-a-pipe-collector-or-a-pipe-smoker?highlight=collector

 

[docwatson]

My 2 cents. Once you are in the $500+ market the line starts to blur in regards to how 'value' is defined. When you are talking about individual carvers such as the two in your post it becomes a game of how much they choose to price their work, likely based on what they can sell their work, not unlike any other kind of artists. Pricing is subjective and value is only seen in the eyes of the beholder. I would argue that cost of a pipe does not reflect its smoking qualities which is typically what a smoker looks for in a pipe. On the flip side, a collector may only look at the skill of the wood worker and weight the value based on artistic merits. Most folks you speak to who smoke pipes don't fall into into the latter category. I digress...

Very well stated jacko
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


https://www.brothersofbriar.com/t4323-are-you-a-pipe-collector-or-a-pipe-smoker?highlight=collector