Item you should read

[stan41]

Not that it will do any good:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/us-citzens-against-the-pact-act-of-2009-s1147

Stan41

 

[jeremyt]

Signed and added my two cents !

 

[jlong]

I signed. Like we're supposed to head for Walmart for a tin of Penzance??? What are those bone heads thinking????

 

[kilted1]

I signed and added my two cents too

 

[Rail Man]

These people never stop! EVER! I signed the petition but this is something we need to be calling our Senators about!! And the Senators of states we don't live in too. They are voting on legislation that will affect the whole country, not just their state, they damn well better listen to all of us!

Every day it's something new, some new regulation, new tax, and dammit I'm sick of it! This is no longer politics as usual, this is total control of all aspects of our lives! I'm a young guy, I got a whole life ahead of me but it sure looks like a bleak future with little freedom and little money!!

I have to quit here or I'm going to use profanity to the point of being banned from this group!

 

[Rail Man]

I gave a glance to this bill (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1676/text), it's a little vague on whether it applies to pipe tobacco but we may as well assume it will (apparently not to Cigars, yet), though the text of the bill states it will apply to cigarettes (including RYO) and smokeless tobacco. For an actual definition of what these products are you need to look up the US code.

Part of the reason for this bill it says is that terrorist groups are profiting from illegal cigarette sales in the US. It seems interesting they would give a damn about this but no other part of terrorism and are even bringing KSM to New York for a civil trial. There may be terrorist groups profiting from illegal cigarettes, but this is not the way to go about stopping it at all, it's just a front for more tobacco regulation.

An get this line from Section 1: "(7) with rising State and local tobacco tax rates, the incentives for the illegal sale of cigarettes and smokeless tobacco have increased;" Isn't that convenient? Raise taxes so high it produces too much illegal activity, that makes it perfect to push through more tobacco legislation! And face it, this logic can apply to anything the government wishes to have more control over!

And no more mailing through the postal service:
"‘Sec. 1716E. Tobacco products as nonmailable
‘(a) Prohibition- All cigarettes and smokeless tobacco (as those terms are defined in section 1 of the Act of October 19, 1949, commonly referred to as the Jenkins Act) are nonmailable and shall not be deposited in or carried through the mails. The United States Postal Service shall not accept for delivery or transmit through the mails any package that it knows or has reasonable cause to believe contains any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this subsection. For the purposes of subsection (a) reasonable cause includes--"

I guess tobacco products could still be mailed via FedEx, UPS, etc., for now anyway. Of course buying online will be impossible anyway so what would it matter?


And the best part: "SEC. 5. INSPECTION BY BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES OF RECORDS OF CERTAIN CIGARETTE AND SMOKELESS TOBACCO SELLERS; CIVIL PENALTY.

‘(c)(1) Any officer of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives may, during normal business hours, enter the premises of any person described in subsection (a) or (b) for the purposes of inspecting--
‘(A) any records or information required to be maintained by such person under the provisions of law referred to in this chapter; or
‘(B) any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco kept or stored by such person at such premises."

For anyone subject to this bill, hello ATF agents walking in and demanding to rifle through your business for anything that may show you as violating the law! If the door is opened up to this sort of thing it will only get worse from here!

And it wouldn't be a true piece of legislation without setting up more bureaucracy! That's more red tape, more regulatory control, more wasted money!

"SEC. 7. ENHANCED CONTRABAND TOBACCO ENFORCEMENT.

2) create a new Tobacco Intelligence Center to oversee investigations and monitor and coordinate ongoing investigations and to serve as a nerve center for all ongoing tobacco diversion investigations within the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, in the United States and, where applicable, with law enforcement organizations around the world,

(4) create a computer database that will track and analyze information from retail sellers of tobacco products that sell through the Internet or by mail order or make other non-face-to-face sales."

A TOBACCO INTELLIGENCE CENTER!! Are you kidding me! And they will be keeping track of all internet retailers in a huge database!! Chances are they will have access to your name, address, phone, etc., for any product you purchase online. Remember ATF agents "inspecting" retailers? Now they can come pay you a visit too!!

And of course it's all for the children, as usual!! Under Section 10 (and elsewhere in the bill)
"to stop tobacco sales to underage youth,"

I'd really like to know how many minors are actually buying cigarettes online? Can they prove this is actually a real problem?

I'll be calling my Senators, I'd suggest you all do the same.

 

[shootist51]

Who do we talk to about having the Congress declared a "terrorist organization"? They seem hell bent on bankrupting the country and destroying the American way of life.

Wonder what will happen when the U.N. awards the west coast to China for unpaid debts?

 

[glpease]

I signed. Like we're supposed to head for Walmart for a tin of Penzance??? What are those bone heads thinking????

They're politicians. Thinking is not in the job description.

 

[rickf28]

I signed.......what right will we lose next....maybey the right to breath????guess im just tired of it all...

Here I am in Iraq supporting our country to insure we stay a free country and yet the government insists on controling every aspect of my life.....I try and understand it but I dont....

Some times I feel like the enemy are the people who are running my own country....Its sad but true

 

[Al in Canada]

Not that it will do any good:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/us-citzens-against-the-pact-act-of-2009-s1147

Stan41

If you support this initiative you must write your senators and representatives!

To paraphrase a wise old man, "on-line petitions ain't worth the paper they ain't printed on."

basically there are multiple problems, the fact that politicos aren't that responsive to petitions in general, unless they have over whelming numbers, and the additional problem that electronic petitions have no vetting of the "signatures".

Politicians are much more impressed by someone who will take the time to actually write them, the time required indicates something about the depth of the persons commitment to the cause which they are supporting or opposing.

Generally all this will generate is a letter in response saying "we got your letter, blah, blah, blah..." but not indicating anything further. they aren't going to decide which side of the fence to come down on until they see how support is going. It generally isn't the logic of the situation it is the "votes" they are interested in as a rule.

They also count and tally calls received, so do that too.

For more on on line petitions and their value (or lack thereof) see:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp

Fight on!

Al (in Canada)
Go Cats

 

[shadrack]

Reading that bill really roasts my potatoes. I knew something like this would crop up sooner rather than later but it's still shocking to actually read the proposal. I hope people get fired up like those kids in California did with the proposed tuition hike. That's the kind of protesting we need to get these bureaucrats to take a step back from this ham-fisted legislation. The public has become too complacent lately and will begrudgingly eat any tripe DC dishes up. And I'm just as guilty as the next guy with throwing my hands in the air, thinking there isn't much I can do about it but we really do have to take a stand against this type of garbage.

Sorry to rant. :x

 

[PipedJimmy]

Not really my business to write here for more reasons that me not being a U.S. citizen, but when I read a declaration like that left by rick who is supporting his country in Iraq, kind of evokes the emotion in me. If what you're fighting for isn't represented by the government that leads your country, remember that your country is represented by more than a government, by people you would die to protect and by something which unites us here on this forum, fraternity, if they are f2cking things up in Washington think of the other common man who is affected and how you can help them, it helps to label injustice but to stop fighting against it is unjust, that's my two cents, peace be with you all.

 

[paddy-boy]

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.- Declaration of Independence

No less true today than it was in 1776.
Today its more peaceful, vote them all out of office.

 

[Jack Straw]

How exactly are they supposed to enforce this anyway? By setting up a task force using all the extra money the taxpayers and USPS have right now?

 

[Centurian 803]

How exactly are they supposed to enforce this anyway? By setting up a task force using all the extra money the taxpayers and USPS have right now?

That's exactly what we need...More Government!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[gandalfpc]

I read the bill - pipe tobacco is not effected. Only roll your own tobacco is covered, which is defined differently in the tax code mentioned in the bill.

One problem is that roll your own tobacco, which is covered, is currently being marketed as pipe tobacco to avoid the taxes - I fear this may bring pipe tobacco back into their sites as they attempt to close the loophole.

Glad I have a well stocked cellar - but as I still have fifty or a hundred pounds to add I hope they leave pipes alone long enough for me to manage it...

With health care on the way it's only a matter of time before smoking will have to be done in hiding and tobacco will be more valuable than gold...

Perhaps they will make me pay a tax for using an avatar that is smoking...

 

[Anonymous]

It is scary to think what the future looks like for people like us in this country. The idiots in government want to destroy the tobacco industry and never stop to think of the tax money they generate by raping us every time we light up.

I suppose I should start cellaring as much tobacco as I can today, because you never know what tomorrow may bring.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Our freedoms are in great jeopardy folks. First the FDA Bull$&@%, and now this! I'll bet our forefathers are spinning in their graves!
What's next, ban our right to bear arms?!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Justpipes]

Least ye forget that many on this board voted for our current sitting government!

Go figure..............Pipe smokers voting for communist that intend to take away our right to smoke a pipe along with everything else. :shock: :shock: :shock: