Meer question.

[jefe1037]

Chuck isn't a liar, he very well likely did experience with his friends the actual cracking of a meerschaum due to cold. I 100% believe him

Meerschaum might also be just dandy at dealing with the cold, too. I 100% believe this, too.

Therefore, everyone might actually be quite correct.

Schroedinger's Cat?

 

[Kyle Weiss]

...or, can a meerschaum cat pipe be both cracked and not cracked at the same time...?

Awww, look, cats smoking pipes! I had to include these...perhaps that's the random event that cracked Chuck's buddy's meer--cat smoking a pipe--it wasn't the cold at all! :shock: Stupid alternate universeses...es.

(good forum avatars, me(ow)thinks...)

 

[Rusty]

As I have already stated I smoke my meers outside in winter too. I avoid sudden extreme temperature changes. Subjecting a HOT meer to SUDDEN EXTREME COLD is the problem. I believe it because I saw it happen. As all of you know, you are free to believe what you will believe. I've stated that before too. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything. I meerly (pun not intended) stated what I saw happen to a meer.

I apologize William. It was never my intent to call you a liar.

After reading over the thread again I think we're in agreement; you smoke your pipes outside in the winter too. You haven't said where that is. LOL! But perhaps you will or at least colour in the typical temps where it hasn't been a problem.

In the meantime the Ops question remains - How cold is too cold? And we should be able to provide some kind of quantitative answer. My experience does not include seeing a meer broken by thermal shock and that's the other thing you provided, a data point where one might very likely break a meer.

So to refine this a bit we need to answer:

1) What is extreme cold that puts your meer at risk? What were the likely conditions described?
William gave us some hints and we can interpret them and he can always come back correct that. This is a group and we do better by taking advantage of group experiences.

2) What is Thermal shock?
William has subtly different take on the cause of breakage and that's another point we need to clarify.

3) What kind of experiences do we have smoking meer pipes in the winter ie what is ok and what is too cold?

So, #1 first. This is the data point for breakage.

What was the extreme cold that William is describing?

The dogs had dug into the snow, their whitefish was frozen and exposed flesh was freezing almost immediately. It was cold.

The weather folks describe a range of conditions where there is risk of flesh freezing quickly.
http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/files/windchl.pdf

It's up to William to tell us more but it seems to me that his description is beyond my experience in winter smoking with my meers. So when there is risk of flesh freezing almost immediately it's likely the equiv. of -30F or below. That's flesh freezing within a minute and it's damn cold. And there will be warnings on the radio in the southern 48 and in Southern Canada when these conditions occur. Also if it is due to wind chill then you should be aware that wind increases the heat dissipation over the surface of the pipe. So wind creates more risk for your pipe.

He's also saying that the fellow was a hot smoker and the pipe was hot. So it's quite possible that instead of 500C (930F) his pipe is being heated by a hotter ember that reaches almost 750C (1300F). And with a nice brisk breeze from extreme cold the meer's thermal shock resistance was insufficient and it broke. That is the data point.

#2 What is thermal Shock?

There is a good description on wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_shock

When any contiguous material is subjected to a temperature gradient (meaning it is hotter in one part than another) then the material is under strain. One part wants to expand and another part wants to contract. If that strain exceeds a threshold, which is a property of the material, then it will break. It is the temp gradient that matters. So that fellow's pipe would have broken outside in the cold just as it did when subjected to the cold air at the doorway. The change that William speaks of is just subjecting the pipe to a steeper temp gradient. It's the temp gradient that destroys the pipe. Whether you take days or minutes to get there doesn't really matter. In fact air cooling is not as efficient at dissipating heat as, say, water cooling. So we ordinarily would not expect a brief exposure to cold to matter very much at all. But air circulation ie wind, will improve the heat dissipation.
Pipes, by their very nature, are subjected to a temp gradient. All of them are. The question is how much of a gradient will they tolerate before breaking?

William has given us a data point that is extreme. If your flesh will freeze and they're warning you on the radio then don't take your meer outside for a smoke.

#3 Experiences smoking in the cold esp. with meer pipes.

I've smoked my meers in calm cold weather down to approx 5 F. And I'm not a particularly hot smoker. I've never had any problem with meers nor briar. But with temps below freezing pipes start to misbehave as smoking instruments so there is less inducement to go to lower temps. It's a gradual decline with temp but the smoke cools so much between bowl and stem bit that the flavour increasingly vanishes and there is much more condensation. By about 5F it's quite bad. There are two improvements possible. One is to smoke shorter pipes and the other is to insulate the pipe. I've played with insulating the pipe bowl, shank, and stem with neoprene and it does improve the performance substantially. But of course now the temp gradient across the bowl wall is not nearly as extreme either.

It's too cold to smoke a meer when it drops below 5F with calm conditions. With any wind the temp threshold goes up probably along similar lines as the wind chill table. I avoid smoking my pipes in wind and cold. That's my experience. But as you can see there are things one can do to improve the situation.

 

[monbla256]

It's all really a moot question as human beings were not born with fur and the good Lord made the MAson-Dixon line for a reason If it's BELOW 50 f ,it's TOO cold, stay inside

 

[Rusty]

It's all really a moot question as human beings were born with fur and the good Lord made the MAson-Dixon line for a reason If it's BELOW 50 f ,it's TOO cold, to stay inside

No kidding? Really I had no idea that you thin skinned southerners were interested in cold!

We think 50F is pretty near swimming weather. But I must confess we also believe it's normal to walk on water as it is solid normally.

There is a good point here though - most of you in the US don;t have to worry about cold breaking your meer. Those of you in the Northern States, Alaska and everywhere in Canada, but Lotus land, need to be aware.

 

[monbla256]

It's all really a moot question as human beings were born with fur and the good Lord made the MAson-Dixon line for a reason If it's BELOW 50 f ,it's TOO cold, to stay inside

No kidding? Really I had no idea that you thin skinned southerners were interested in cold!

We think 50F is pretty near swimming weather. But I must confess we also believe it's normal to walk on water as it is solid normally.

There is a good point here though - most of you in the US don;t have to worry about cold breaking your meer. Those of you in the Northern States, Alaska and everywhere in Canada, but Lotus land, need to be aware.

Yeh, as far as cold goes, we're pretty thinskinned but it's an adaptive thing as most folks from the cold climes can't take the heat and boiling sun we get That's where we shine As I get older, my body finds heat far more enjoyable to cold as well And you are correct smoking in the kind of cold you folks encounter is not an issue here in Texas for sure

 

[Rusty]

It's all really a moot question as human beings were born with fur and the good Lord made the MAson-Dixon line for a reason If it's BELOW 50 f ,it's TOO cold, to stay inside

No kidding? Really I had no idea that you thin skinned southerners were interested in cold!

We think 50F is pretty near swimming weather. But I must confess we also believe it's normal to walk on water as it is solid normally.

There is a good point here though - most of you in the US don;t have to worry about cold breaking your meer. Those of you in the Northern States, Alaska and everywhere in Canada, but Lotus land, need to be aware.

Yeh, as far as cold goes, we're pretty thinskinned but it's an adaptive thing as most folks from the cold climes can't take the heat and boiling sun we get That's where we shine As I get older, my body finds heat far more enjoyable to cold as well And you are correct smoking in the kind of cold you folks encounter is not an issue here in Texas for sure

Ah but you guys in DFW do get snow and freezing rain and it would be best NOT to have either falling on your pipe when it's going. Water has much more heat capacity and it dissipates heat very well. So you might crack a meer getting it wet in the winter.

 

[monbla256]

That's true. We do get those "blue Norther's" as we call 'em, but not this winter so far It's around 45 degrees f right now and a steady rain which is not very condusive to pipe smoking outside for sure but makes for a nice thing to do all nice and dry and WARM inside And I keep forgetting that I live alone and am not relegated by someone elses's opinion to smoking outside. I feel for you guys.

 

[Rusty]

That's true. We do get those "blue Norther's" as we call 'em, but not this winter so far It's around 45 degrees f right now and a steady rain which is not very condusive to pipe smoking outside for sure but makes for a nice thing to do all nice and dry and WARM inside And I keep forgetting that I live alone and am not relegated by someone elses's opinion to smoking outside. I feel for you guys.

Which guys?
Up here it's cold enough that I smoke inside everyday ... at least once.
It gives the air a nice atmospheric quality. Things across the room look further away.

 

[williamcharles]

Rusy, we were near Fairbanks in Feb. 1972. I've already told all of the story that I can recall. All I know is the pipe cracked when that door was opened and that cold came in with the wind.

I live in Indiana now. Three years ago we had two nights where the temp dropped to -17F. Fortunately it was calm so there was no wind chill to deal with. It gets cold here too. I have found doves frozen solid. Not nearly as cold as Canada but it does get cold here. Twelve years ago three toes on my right foot were frostbitten. I thought that with boots and heavy wool socks and cotten liners I'd be alright. Well hell! That'll teach me to think.

I've been to Canada in the winter. That was in 1970. We left Rhode Island and headed North. In New York we were stranded for the first time of the trip. We eventually entered Canada and were driving along the QEH and got snowed in again and had to spend 18 hours in some truck stop. That was a damned cold night. The waitress was cute, the coffee was hot, I had money in my pocket and there was a cigarette machine so it could have been much worse.

Two or three years ago I stepped outside to have a smoke. It was winter. I had on gloves and my briar slipped out of my hand. The button hit first and the bottom side of the shank snapped right off. I stopped smoking my pipes outside that night. If it's cold enough that I have to wear gloves it's too damned cold to smoke a pipe! That's just me though.

I can't believe this winter! Middle of Feb. and it was 50F today! Unusual to say the least. Usually a heck of a lot colder this time of year. The older I get the more I dislike the cold so this warm weather suits me. Now I'm just waiting for the other shoe to fall. Somethings up.

I'm 60 now so I smoke inside these days. According to my doctor, after having had four heart attacks and a triple bypass I'm an idiot for smoking at all. But he also says that as far as he's concerned smoking a pipe sounds like quitting to him so that's how it got entered in the last insurance papers. Insurance companies suck. Hot or cold, they suck.

 

[mark]

I can't believe this winter! Middle of Feb. and it was 50F today! Unusual to say the least.

Best winter I can remember,,,,one that will be be talked about for years

 

[Richard Burley]

I can't believe this winter! Middle of Feb. and it was 50F today! Unusual to say the least.

Best winter I can remember,,,,one that will be be talked about for years

Betcha I'm older than you. There was one in the northeast years ago that was similar. I think it was '71. I remember it because my car at the time had no heater, and it never bothered me. I was loading gravel trucks in a pit, and spent most of my time waiting for them to arrive. The cab of the loader wasn't very warm, because diesels don't heat up much unless worked. A normal winter in upstate New York, under the same circumstances, would have killed me. Of course, I could be senile, and it's all a fantasy.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I can't believe this winter! Middle of Feb. and it was 50F today! Unusual to say the least.

Best winter I can remember,,,,one that will be be talked about for years

It's been super nice this winter here, too. Kind of makes up for the hell we endured for the prior two. :lol:

 

[williamcharles]

Anybody remember the blizzard of '78? I sat that one out in a snow cave that I had to dig. Three days I had to cool my heels. That was before the first heart attack when I was still rugged enough to do such things. Now after having had four HA's and a triple bypass those days are gone ( I mean the digging, I still make it to the woods ). Wonder if that's why I remember '78 fondly (pre HA days)? Must be, because why in hell would anyone remember a blizzard fondly?

 

[mark]

,, why in hell would anyone remember a blizzard fondly?

lots of kids have birthdays nine months after bad blizzards,,,, :shock:

 

[williamcharles]

,, why in hell would anyone remember a blizzard fondly?

lots of kids have birthdays nine months after bad blizzards,,,, :shock:

Good point! :lol: :lol: :lol: