P&C Doubles Prices of Esoterica Bags

[AJ]

P&C can charge whatever they like for any product they offer. We don't have to buy it if we don't like the price. If the same items is available at some other place at a better price the it behooves us to obtain the item from the place with the best price. The only legitiment complaint that I've read is from Ron (Cartaphilus). Ron said P&C contacted him to see if he wanted to cancel his backorder. Ron told them no and then he found they cancelled it anyway. Then he found the item available a the higher price. This is a problem. P&C should address the issue with Ron and fulfill the order at the agreed upon price.

I sent Russ Oullette a link to this thread and asked him to read all of the replies and address the concerns raised here. Whether he will read and follow through with adressing the issues remains to be seen.

I see no need of castigating a company for raising the price of some item they have for sale. There are lots of company online that sell the same products. No one is obligated to buy from any one company and these companies are aware of this. Some of the members here jumped all over Rich at 4Noggins for selling a consignment tobacco at what they determined to be an unreasonably high price. Rich was accused of price gouging and other unfair practices. Turned out they didn't have their information correct before raising an alarm. It may be the facts are correct in this matter but it still doesn't warrant all the bad press. I've bought a lot of tobacco from P&C this year and have nothing but high prasie for Russ and his staff. I've bought a lot of tobacco from several other companies and have gotten great service from them all. I buy where the price is best and the product is available. If a company wants my business then they will offer the product I want at the price I'm willing to pay. It's that simple. Monbla was right. There's no need for the whining. Just take your business elsewhere. It's the American way.  

AJ

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Whatever the strategy behind the price hike, it's clear that it failed, if for no other reason than the reaction in this thread, and more than probably on other forums as well. Maybe they've made an extra $200.00 by now but have done so at the expense of losing much much more in negative opinions so accrued.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Whatever the strategy behind the price hike, it's clear that it failed, if for no other reason than the reaction in this thread, and more than probably on other forums as well. Maybe they've made an extra $200.00 by now but have done so at the expense of losing much much more in negative opinions so accrued.

Ahhh, the vanity!   :roll:     

Don't over-estimate the significance of pipe forums and the opinions expressed there, especially when conjecturing as to how a retailer might regard those opinions, I would say.  :evil: :evil: 

Honestly, it's kind of funny (but really just more sad) to see how little it takes to ruffle the flock's feathers sometimes.  I've no doubt personally the P&C will continue to prosper for the foreseeable future, nor do I see any point in whining about that, irrespective of what I may feel about $50 bags of Esoterica.  

The sellers charge what they see fit and the buyers pay what they think is fair.  Not a lot of news there IMO.  Sheesh...:fpalm: :roll:  

 

[Puff Daddy]

At this point I believe all we are doing is wondering aloud why they are raising their prices so astronomically on an item when nobody else in the same retail chain, buying it from the same distributor who did not raise the wholesale price (apparently), is charging so much. Are we not allowed to ask why? Or to talk about it? Is it in good taste to take your business elsewhere but not in good taste to first ask why?

Don't ask questions, just buy it! Ah, the corporate Uhmerican mentality. I'd think they'd want a little dialogue about their services. They sure do like to talk about it when their customers have good things to say. Do they not want to hear about the not so good things?

Free country to shop where you like. Also free to discuss why you shop there, or why you don't.

 

[Puff Daddy]

Also, if they come in here and show how this is untrue, I will be happy to say we were wrong.

 

[Dragonslayer]

@Dave and Herewood - I’m not affiliated with P&C or any other tobacco company. In fact I live in Pittsburgh and their move to PA now costs me 6% more in taxes I was able to skirt like most of you. I use the term skirt because by law in most states you’re already required to pay state taxes on purchases over the internet. I doubt any of us are complying with this law because it really would cost the states more to track this than they could collect. This is going to change for all but the few states that don’t have sales tax, those that do will fall on the vendor to collect and pay.

I joined last month because the site has been mentioned on other forums I belong to. One I’m very active (860 posts in 11 months), the other which IMO is more for newer smokers and traders/sellers (111 posts in 8 months). I’ve made a good amount of friends and correspond with them through PM and Email. Most of them are also members here, and I’ve only have so much time to post on the many forums I read dealing with many of my hobbies. I made that post because it pissed me off to read people pushing to make this a viral thread on multiple forums and I was right.

I found that while the thread pounced on a company that many people have built large cellars from turned the topic about a price increase on a small brand, and basically two blends into how good other companies are in comparison. I ran my original post past a good friend and poster on all these forums, posting more than anyone I know. His advice was to leave out my experiences with other companies and obvious reasons why it’s a smart to cellar what you can, due to the large increases in tobacco prices we’re going to see in the years to come. Many of these people who invest in tobacco, which is a commodity, are top posters. If you cellar tobacco in large quantities you’re a hoarder? I broke down my feelings on what happens to those single blends. I feel it’s accurate and those who are inside buying and flipping are opportunists, I’m not fond of them but that’s a choice in the way they want to do business. I have not even sampled Stonehaven let alone seen it for sale other than consignment dealers or Ebay. I do have some Penzance that I bought having sampled it from a friend, found it not for my pallet at this time. I do however with a dozen other blends realize they’re a good investment for both ageing and sale years from now. I have three cabinets. One for those which is my rotation including samples, a second for those I’m ageing for rotation. The last is for tobacco, most of what I do smoke. These are an investment against both the increase in price and financial investment. I’m doing the same thing on a far smaller scale than those here with hundreds of pounds in their cellar. I’ve done the same thing with other commodities like gold and silver that paid off nicely. If you look at the increase in value of tobacco in general and specific blends across the board in just the last few years it’s a no brainer. With future taxes from the bottom up that the industry is going to see in the next few years… I’m not going to turn this into an apocalyptic post. But certain blends due to age (already seen), availability now or in the future (already seen), tobacco has a huge return on investment. To think otherwise is naïve.

So I’m sorry for this being my first post in the month I’ve been here, though having read through it many times. But for many here you already know me. I use the same screen name in all forums.

P&C has been a great company to deal with all around and will continue to give them my business. SP screwed up 2 out of the 3 orders I placed with them, so they’ll not get my business. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Rich and 4noggins, especially with International buyers. I’ve yet to purchase from him for price reasons, but he has some shop blends that are on my list to try. He does however sell consignment tins that both the seller and his company profit from. But I’ve no intention of holding that against him.


Craig

 

[rekamepip]

marking thread for later viewing
ig:​

 

[Anonymous]

Craig, I'm just ribbing you.

Topic of the day is P&C's price spike. I could care less. I buy what I want from whoever I want. SP, P&C, Mars, 4Noggins etc etc. When the price is right.

Yes, many people here have given P&C quite a sum of cash over time. Speculation and a raised eyebrow over a price increase and a lame reason given to returning customers is warranted.

For some people who purchase a lot of Esoterica from P&C, it's like going to your neighborhood supermarket and they double the price of all Sam Adams beer. Well, crap... gotta go down the street. It's a moderate pain point.

 

[cigrmaster]

Guys, I know Craig from a different site and his is definitely not associated with PC. He is just a loyal customer who feels badly that his favorite source is getting ripped like it is.

Craig, as you know I was a staunch defender of PC even after the take over and all the problems they have had. I totally get why you feel like you do but you need to look at them differently I am afraid to say. They are no longer that company that we grew to depend on.

Let me give you some examples.

I have had a back order on a certain blend since July, SP has been restocked 6 times in that period and I still have not gotten my back order.

I ordered 10 packs of BJ Long Bristle pipe cleaners on OCT 7, they sent one pack and back ordered the rest. I still have not gotten my back order even though the cleaners came back in stock a week ago. How can a company be out of stock on an item like that for over a month? it takes a few days to re order and re supply. It happens because who ever is in charge, is not doing their job.

They have been out of Solani 633 for months, and just got Silver Flake in after being out for months. These are blends that are in stock everywhere and if they do get out of stock are immediately re supplied. There have been many others examples of this and honestly I was giving them a pass as I know it takes time for a company to get it together after a buy out but the time it has taken is ridiculous and now that I see they cannot even keep pipe cleaners in stock it tells me that the person they put in charge is useless.

I have another back order on a blend that is from June, they have it in stock and have not gotten in touch with me about sending it to me or crediting my account.

I have another back order from October 3, and still nothing, this one I am expecrting to take time because it is a hard to find. The worst thing about all these back orders is that not once did I receive an email saying things were back ordered, the only reason i knew of them was because of the invoice that was sent with the package. They used to notify me before they shipped of any back ordered items. I should not have to now call them and remind them about the June one should I?

It is clear to me that CI is a large corporation whose customer service policies are they absolutely do not care about their customers. PC is not the same company Craig, it is not the guys who cared about our orders before. Those people are gone from the company. The only guy who is left is Russ and his job is that of a Master Blender, not a shipping clerk or a customer service rep. He is having to waste so much of his time putting out fires that he is being totally mis treated in my opinion. Someone other than Russ should have been addressing all these issues on the site. When the issue of them packaging incorrectly was brought up, it was not Russ's job to handle it. I can only imagine that he is thinking to himself , I did not sign up for this crap.

Craig, I do applaud your loyalty, but now believe it misplaced. They do not deserve your loyalty anymore because they are not the same company and it is not the same people( other than Russ) who took pride in treating their customers with respect. The doubling of the Esoterica blends proves that fact.

 

[Anonymous]

P&C needs to be paying Russ really well with all the hats he wears. Much respect to him!

I don't mind the long back order times on rare stuff as they list on the site as such. I'm glad they offer this "waiting list" type service.

Their back-order shipping policy is very much appreciated.

P&C has always been very hit and miss on their follow up (their main issue IMO). I don't know if they simply don't have the infrastructure or what but I thought this would be resolved after the change/buyout/whatever. It hasn't.

I have 20 years experience with advertising, marketing, statistics, metrics, application development, customer relations process, business policy creation and a ton of web-based and B&M commerce experience. Needless to say, I have seen my share of PR catastrophes and successes. I have an opinion and I try to voice it with advice.

A small business's #1 goal should be customer happiness and managing their expectations. It takes years to establish and minutes to destroy. Ask any small business owner, in the black, how important this is!

 

[rekamepip]

................ The worst thing about all these back orders is that not once did I receive an email saying things were back ordered, the only reason i knew of them was because of the invoice that was sent with the package. They used to notify me before they shipped of any back ordered items. I should not have to now call them and remind them about the June one should I?

............

:shock: 
Back Ordered for that long !!!

i would say....
Grab you a big mug of coffee...
Load up a pipe full...
Find yourself a comfortable chair....

Pick up the phone and be prepared to be on hold for a few hours
while you talk to peggy....

:shock: 

 

[cigrmaster]

I finally got off my lazy ass and called PC to cancel my back orders. I spoke with a nice young lady and explained why I was cancelling( waiting to long and the price increase of Esoterica products even though I had no back orders on them).

She let me know that they had no previous notice of the price increase and she intimated that she and her fellow customer service people were blind sided by the increase and they were none to happy. I am sure they have been inundated with calls about back orders being cancelled on Esoterica products and now people have to pay double. I told her that she should have a manager get on line to see the damage they have caused themselves.

 

[rekamepip]

...I spoke with a nice young lady and explained why.....

So how is Peggy

:cheers: 

 

[cigrmaster]

It was not a Peggy, it began with an A.

 

[flytyer]

It's not the same P&C it ounce was...seems the only thing that's the same is the name. Over pricing is good enough reason for me to shop elsewhere just on principle. My guess is that there customer base will change along with the new owners...Thanks CI.

 

[RDPipes]

I realize this thread is going on a bit too long but, I just want to clarify why I won't do business with them any longer in case it's got lost. It seems it's become about cost of product only. I understand merchants raising prices no matter what they choose for a price hike. What I don't care for is when you have a paid back order and they contact you and ask if you would like to cancel and you reply stating NO Thank You and they turn around and cancel it for you anyway. That's what peeved me off and I think it's a good reason why I won't be going back there period.

 

[cigrmaster]

Cartaphilus, I totally get where you are coming from and agree. Cancelling a back order for the express purpose of jacking you up on price after they have taken your money is so wrong on many different levels. That one act shows me that they are now a company where profit trumps customer service and I believe it will have a negative effect on their bottom line.

It is not like we do not have other great vendors to give our money to( SP and 4noggins ) just to name a couple. Ted( SP) and Rich( 4noggins) care about their customers and bend over backwards to make things right when a mistake is made or if you have any concerns about a purchase. Yes PC does have great prices on many things, but since the takeover, they have jacked prices 10% on many of the blends I used to buy, never mind doubling Esoterica blends. When I spend my money, price is indeed important, but how I am treated and how I am appreciated is equally as important.

 

[JimInks]

Cartaphilus, I totally get where you are coming from and agree. Cancelling a back order for the express purpose of jacking you up on price after they have taken your money is so wrong on many different levels. That one act shows me that they are now a company where profit trumps customer service and I believe it will have a negative effect on their bottom line.

It is not like we do not have other great vendors to give our money to( SP and 4noggins ) just to name a couple. Ted( SP) and Rich( 4noggins) care about their customers and bend over backwards to make things right when a mistake is made or if you have any concerns about a purchase.  Yes PC does have great prices on many things, but since the takeover, they have jacked prices 10% on many of the blends I used to buy, never mind doubling Esoterica blends.  When I spend my money, price is indeed important, but how I am treated and how I am appreciated is equally as important.  

We are in total agreement!!  Btw, I just got the 5 tins of ABF I ordered back in June from P&C today. I knew I'd have to wait a bit since it was on backorder when I placed my order, so I'm not upset about, but it did take a while, didn't it?  If I was treated as Cartaphilus was, I wouldn't give them my business either. He deserved much, much better.

Btw, I notice that none of the Esoterica blends P&C got in when they raised the prices have sold out. I find that very instructive.

 

[cigrmaster]

jim, there is no excuse for you having to wait that long for you to get your ABF. SP and 4noggins are never out of it and if they are it is only for a week maybe, so it is not a shortage from the mfg, but it is a manager from PC not doing their job. I had a back order of 1 tin of Astleys no 44 since June and they never filled it even though it had been back in stock for weeks. I was waiting to see how long or even if they would send it to me without me telling them. I ended up cancelling that back order along with 3 other ones so I could be done with them.

 

[JimInks]

jim, there is no excuse for you having to wait that long for you to get your ABF. SP and 4noggins are never out of it and if they are it is only for a week maybe,  so it is not a shortage from the mfg, but it is a manager from PC not doing their job. I had a back order of 1 tin of Astleys no 44 since June and they never filled it even though it had been back in stock for weeks. I was waiting to see how long or even if they would send it to me without me telling them. I ended up cancelling that back order along with 3 other ones so I could be done with them.

I can't argue with you at all on this. You're right. I placed the order to get to the free shipping level, and because it was cheaper per unit than anybody else sells it for when you order 5 or more tins, and I wasn't charged until it shipped. That, and I have so much to smoke that I could afford to be patient. Otherwise, I'd have never waited so long. But it's true that if they did their jobs with efficiency, I wouldn't have had to wait this long.