pipe elitism

[Anonymous]

Sad to say, Muddler, I've never read it. You could tell me better than I could tell you

JP :

Ben Wade (back when it was still Ben Wade), Charatan and Dunhill are what they were because they catered to elitists.

Note tense, please

Same deal today.

Intended with (I assumed, obvious) reference to folks like Messrs. Davis, Howell and their confreres. Not to the stuff that disgraces the great old names stamped on it by those who bought the "right" to do so when they folded.

:face:

 

[CaptainYoohman]

It never stops amusing me when someone says: “I’m not a racist, but those Japs (Jews, Arabs, Yellows etc.) are just getting on my nerves sometimes…” Doesn’t apply, you’d say? How’s this: “I really think all Vauens are useless laquered pieces of dung. But I don’t mind people smoking them, as long as they enjoy it.” “I just laugh at all those blowsnails, but if those guys want to pay big bucks for them, that’s their business, as long as they don’t think too much of themselves” See anything wrong in these statements?.. :?:

The way this thread started was about salesman’s perception of a potential client’s ability to buy expensive pipes sold at that store. As a homebuilder, we have to deal with such salespeople often. They try to “qualify” someone walking in the door and decide if those people are “worthy” of their precious time. There are times when I really wanna kick them in their shins for doing that. My motto is to treat everyone walking in the sales centre as a potential buyer. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow… But one day this approach should pay off, I believe.

You may recall a famous story-legend about Sixten Ivarsson telling some fellow walking in his shop that he didn’t have any pipes for him and explaining later that the guy wasn’t worthy of an Ivarsson’s Product with his dirty drug-store pipe and a pack of drug-store tobacco sticking out of his pocket... Well, maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. What if old Sixten did take a little bit of time and try educating the guy about why Ivarsson’s pipes are good (better, best)? What if that explanation would have changed the guy’s take on pipes forever? Just kidding, it probably wouldn’t have…

Anyway, the above was not an example of Elitism. It was either business stupidity or business reality depending on who you ask. And that’s not the direction this discussion evolved either, isn’t it? 8)

The way I’d define Elitism in Pipe Smoking and Collecting is public, open and derogatory expression of one's disrespect of smoking preferences and collecting interests of others. I find that Elitism wrong and unacceptable in a decent community.

“You may say I am dreamer
But I’m not the only one”
J. Lennon ipe:

 

[puros_bran]

Roughians,uncouth roughians I say, the lot of you, be gone from here.. I'm trying to smoke my bearded Octipi!




So... Let's see... After seven pages we have decided what?

Sixten was an elitist,
The guys that smoke his pipes may or may not be,
A peterson champion definatly is,
Don't smoke drug store tobacco, you won't have friends.......

 

[gkhanna74]

I am glad someone finally wrote about that famous Boston pipe shop. I always have had subpar experiences when I have visited that place; thus, despite working in the Boston financial district near that famous shop for 8+years, I rarely step foot inside the store. They just aren't friendly nor engaging with customers, at least not me. I do like one of their tobaccos (Omega), but frankly, there are plenty of fantastic English blends on the market and I can always buy via mail order. I contrast my experiences at that store with the outstanding mail order service of Jon's Pipe Shop in Champaign, IL. Patrick, the proprietor of Jon's, is one of the friendliest guys in the business, and has the more customer friendly terms for pipe purchases.

 

[Anonymous]

It never stops amusing me when someone says: “I’m not a racist, but those Japs (Jews, Arabs, Yellows etc.) are just getting on my nerves sometimes…”

What amuses me, on the other hand, are Brave-New-Worlders who imagine that the intensity of their own self-righteousness entitles them to dictate to others what they may and may not think or say about anything they hold a strong opinion on. Which is just about everything.

A very popular attitude on college campuses these days.

Formerly known as fascism.

And the side-splitter is, they advance this as "advancing diversity" :lol!:

Soldier on, Captain

:face:

 

[Dock]

Roughians,uncouth roughians I say, the lot of you, be gone from here.. I'm trying to smoke my bearded Octipi!




So... Let's see... After seven pages we have decided what?

Sixten was an elitist,
The guys that smoke his pipes may or may not be,
A peterson champion definatly is,
Don't smoke drug store tobacco, you won't have friends.......

Bran,

Now I wish we had a way to elect "classic posts" as well as classic threads here! You'd get my official nomination for that one!

Best,
D.J.

 

[Anonymous]

So... Let's see... After seven pages we have decided what?

Probably nothing. But hopefully people aren't so paranoid about being perceived as "elitists."

And if nothing else, we seem to have set a record for post participation & viewing numbers

Maybe "controversy" isn't always "bad" ?

Off to see what I can sell to afford a blowsnail now . . .

:face:

 

[Justpipes]

Roughians,uncouth roughians I say, the lot of you, be gone from here.. I'm trying to smoke my bearded Octipi!




So... Let's see... After seven pages we have decided what?

Sixten was an elitist,
The guys that smoke his pipes may or may not be,
A peterson champion definatly is,
Don't smoke drug store tobacco, you won't have friends.......

Bran,

Now I wish we had a way to elect "classic posts" as well as classic threads here! You'd get my official nomination for that one!

Best,
D.J.

I'll second that nomination!

 

[Anonymous]

PB PS : A Peterson champion ?

Credit where credit's due. A good-smoking pipe is a good-smoking pipe whether it's stamped "Ivarsson" or "Imported Briar."

Elitist ?

Everybody is, PB. One way or another. It's hardwired in us. Watch a housewife in the produce section fingering through the fruit on display, picking out "the good ones." Watch a guy in the pro shop deciding which inordinately expensive golf club(s) to buy. He wants "the good stuff." Because it's "the good stuff." Just owning it makes him happy, whether he ever plays any better with it or not.

No two people will ever agree on exactly what it is, but the quest for it is what fuels the bus we're on. We fixate on what we like, or imagine we'd like.

This pretty much being the case, why can't we just come out of the closet with it ? If it does wonders for a woman's enjoyment of life to get some new fashion thingie and go out someplace wearing it, why is pointing to the analogue of that in briar taken as an insult ?

The whole thing seems, to yr. obt. svt., like a textbook example of "Let's all play a game. And the first rule of it is we have to pretend we're not playing a game."

We're all pretty much nuts anyhow, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. So why is it that it does ? Keeping a guilty secret is one thing. But believing that folks just being folks is -- in itself -- something to feel guilty about and keep secret is the kind of "twist" that makes comedies comical.

So it seems, anyhow.

:face:

 

[Justpipes]

Well, there are two ways!

1. The wrong way

2. The Justpipe's way

:lol!:

 

[puros_bran]

I do not disagree!

Other than laughing at the trends,I really don't even care or notice. Contrary to the way it appears sometimes I'm not laughing at the piper as much as I am humanity as a whole.

Clothing,Pipes,Cars,Foods and on down the line are subject to trends and to me its funny. Last week blowsnails where in fashion and everyone had to have one,this week its bearded octipi, next week? Who knows, but whoever starts the trend has a lot to gain.

In otherwords. I like bulldogs and small billiards, I'm also partial to dublin-ish freehands and Volcanos with a lot of birdseye.... When any of this stuff is 'in' I'm a genius...when its out.. Oh well.
I am partial to certain makers, everyone is, I try to stay tightlipped about my favorite (a wise man passed that tidbit of wisdom to me) because it appears everytime I mention it the ebay price goes up another 5 bucks. Elitist? Yes, when my racks are full and my shelves are covered I'll share my secret with more than the handful I have, until then, sorry.
Dock,Neil,Ian,Greg and the crew have posted pics of uber priced wood, more power to them, I don't care what they smoke. Are they Elitist? Hell yeah, but as you said we all are. How many amoung us have expressed the view that Pipe smoking is better than Cig smoking? That's elitist.
I have smoked tons of tobacco, I think my 2 personal favorites are the best of the best, is that Elitist? Yes it is.

I think a lot of folk confuse Elitisism for assholism (sorry for cussing DPG) there is a big diff.
Even in pm I have never felt like a member here has belittled what I choose to smoke, well except TJ and that's a game he and I play with Petes/Dunhills.

This all started because a guy got crapped on at a pipeshop... Personally if I saw anyone belittle what another here smokes (besides Walnut, that stuffs just nasty ) with ill intent I would ask the council to ban them,period.
Whether your pipe cost 2 dollars or 20,000 dollars is a non issue.

 

[J_Rock]

PB- I could have not said it better myself!!! Great job! I myself am into some of the same styles of pipes as you. We can be in style together when the time comes!!!!!

-Jeff

 

[Anonymous]

When any of this stuff is 'in' I'm a genius...when its out.. Oh well.

Being mostly a fleabay shopper (the game is part of the fun, even though it's a creepy outfit), when any of this stuff is "in," I'm on the sidelines, watching people get carried away. When it's "out," I emerge from hibernation and continue.

:face:

 

[Dock]

This may have everything to do with this thread or nothing to do with this thread but here goes anyway.............

Earlier this week my pipe club hosted a small "swap & sell". I brought a buch of less expensive pipes and racks as did a few other folks.I sold all of mine for a very small sum to a new club member who I like and felt was quite deserving of them.

I took the money from that sale and bought a lightly smoked Stanwell Apache from our club secretary.I figured I'd use it as a "yard pipe" and it would be of good service to me in that capacity.Though nothing special,it's a nice little blasted bent dublin with a smooth top.I paid $45.00 for it.

I fired it up last night. I kid you not when I say that it's one of the finest smoking pipes that I have filled with tobacco! It's draw is WIDE OPEN, it's stem is very comfortable and it's very light in weight!

This pipe smokes as well if not better than most of my big money briars!...

What lesson can we take away from this little discovery?

(1)Regardless of what ANYONE says, you don't need to spend big bucks to get a great smoking pipe!

(2) My status as a pipe elitist is now in great jeporady as I'm smoking and bragging on Stanwell's....

Best,
D.J.

 

[puros_bran]

Stanwell makes a fine pipe DPG, I'd put it up against any other factory pipe.

My only deal with them is (other than the almost unsmoked one I bought from you) I won't buy them estate.

The logic?

If you ebay Stanwell most of them go around the 40-50 buck mark. Why in the world buy a pipe you have zero clue about how its been treated,or what's been smoked in it,when you can go to Frenchy's and buy em new for 10-20 bucks more.

Yes you can clean the estate up,buy a new stem for it,etc etc but saving 10 bucks isn't worth it to me.

 

[Nick]

Forgive me for the late post. Wonderful discussion though. I just wanted to ad my two cents.

This staement struck me as really odd:

Everybody is, PB. One way or another. It's hardwired in us. Watch a housewife in the produce section fingering through the fruit on display, picking out "the good ones." Watch a guy in the pro shop deciding which inordinately expensive golf club(s) to buy. He wants "the good stuff." Because it's "the good stuff." Just owning it makes him happy, whether he ever plays any better with it or not.

The act of being elitist isn't where one surround yourself with things that he or she values. It is the act of thinking and acting as if one deserved preferential or better treatment because of some quality that person posesses. It has nothing to do with flaunting ones possessions. It has nothing to with possessions at all.

Thinking that a certain pipe maker ought to give you a discount because you're an "influential member of the pipe community" is elitist. Having the pipe itself and showing it off isn't. Being proud and excited about a pipe is not.

One could argue that a particular pipe is elite, in that it may be among the best based on some quality. But owning it or desiring to own it does not make one an elitist. Acting like you deserve to own it does.

 

[Anonymous]

It depends, Nick, on your reference point.

As an objective description of acheivement, the best in any field comprise an elite. Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle and Roberto Clemente were the elite outfielders of their generation.

As a description of character (or rather, of the lack of it), "elitist" = Inflated Ego Syndrome.

Dunhill worked both sides of the street.

At least, as I see it.

:face:

 

[Anonymous]

being elitist . . . is . . . thinking and acting as if one deserved preferential or better treatment . . .

That would be my idea of being an asswhole.

Being an elitist, in my view, would be maintaining a high standard, as a matter of principle.

Thinking that a certain pipe maker ought to give you a discount because you're an "influential member of the pipe community" is elitist.

Ditto previous re-definition.

Helpful example : Elite military units. Proud ? You bet. Quietly, maybe, but still proud. Look down their noses a bit at the common run around them with lower standards ? Maybe they do. So what ?

My dad was a naval officer in WW II. Back then, it was more or less expected that an enlisted man on shore leave would get stinking drunk and come back with a vernerial disease. But if an officer ever did that, he'd only do it once and remember the aftermath of it the rest of his life. An Elitist standard ? Intensely. Therefore bad ? I'd say not.

Pride is oftentimes a bad thing. But it can also be a very useful thing. Therein lies the rub.

:face:

 

[Nick]

Being an elitist, in my view, would be maintaining a high standard, as a matter of principle.

Being elitist meaning having high standards as a matter of principle? That sounds more like... well, like good sense? I mean what should we shoot for? Mediocrity? Having low standards as a matter of principle? Maybe I'm misconstruing what you're saying here.

I like your example of the military elite. But whether one is a braggadocio or a quiet, reserved person has nothing to do with ones qualification on the subject. As a matter of fact, being elite, and being an elitist are two completely different things. A person or object that is elite is among the best in what ever quality is being discussed. E.g. The Navy Seals are the elite of the Navy's troops in stealth, water based attacks. Tiger Woods is elite as a golfer. Some one is an elitist when they act as though they are entitled to better treatment because of their skill or qualities, which may or may not be elite in and of themselves.

Totally different things.

Rick Newcome is an elite pipe collector. From what I hear, he has a fabulous collection. Yet, he is a very down to earth person, who is as likely to be smoking a GBD or Bertram as he is a Bang or a Nordh. Owning fine collection does not make him elitist. It makes him a good collector.

I think all of us can imagine a person who, because he only smokes high grade pipes, looks down on those who smoke more pedestrian pipes. I just haven't met anyone like that myself. Even then, it makes him a snob not an elitist. I certainly don't think that owning a collection of high grade pipes, or even being desirous of high grade pipes, makes one and elitist.

Moreover, wanting to share ones collecting triumphs, the gems of a colloection, doesn't make one elitist. It makes one human. It is like showing baby pictures. You're proud of them. They make you happy. And you hope the object shared makes others happy too.

 

[rhodog]

So, if I choose to champion some artisan for doing good work, I do so having paid my dues. I do it honestly. And I do it with a sincere intention to honor someone else for whom I feel respect and admiration.

I know you do and I salute you for it.

Having said this, I don't understand why you feel the need to justify yourself. If someone who is clearly in love with the sound of his own voice and whose ostentatious verbosity fails to cover up his lack of stubstance , took a potshot at me, I would just shrug.

Best regards,
Erwin