Relationship of Water and Aging

[glpease]

I like the flour/tobacco analogy. I like that a lot. As a fellow food nerd, especially.

Meanwhile, I assume at least in part, besides keeping the product, shipping around large quantities tobacco laden with water is much more expensive, too. Water weighs a lot. That might have something to do with why it is dried when getting to the second stage of tobacco production, say, at a blender's location.

I'm okay when certain bulk blends come to me a little dry, and I happen to notice there's a little more in the bag. I can deal with adding a little moisture if needed. :cheers: The volatile compounds that are separate from the moisture content should be healthily intact, though. I like those.

8)

Actually, bulk leaf, prior to secondary processing, is kept dry to keep it stable, prevent rot, and so on. The last thing a supplier or a blender wants is to have bales of tobacco fermenting and aging after the initial processing, thus changing over time. As for water weight, that's a split hair that deserves another look.

I think most consumers would prefer to buy a tin of tobacco that's at the proper moisture level, paying for 3-4% more water weight, than one that breaks up and turns to dust in shipping. I've had very dry tobaccos produce as much as 20% waste when sifted, and 10-15% is not uncommon. As the tobacco dries in the tin, there will be enough breakage and loss - we don't want to START that way. (It took me a long time to convince the factory that "selling water" in this case actually saves the consumer money in the end, as they're not throwing out a bunch of dust.)

Of course, if the tobacco is being sold with 20% moisture, and higher, that's a different story. And, some bulk aromatics are being delivered just that way.

As for final smoking, it's much easier to dry tobacco than to rehydrate it properly. Adding moisture takes time, and we can be an impatient lot. The stuff is hygroscopic, but it takes many hours for the moisture to actually penetrate into the leaf, rather than sitting on top of it. If sufficient time isn't allowed, people will tend to rush the process by over-moistening, and often end up with a moldy mess.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Neat, thanks for the insider info, Greg. I agree, I would have to say a slightly-over-moist tobacco rather than a bag/tin that's suddenly turned to snuff is a better option. I have received a few retail bags, from an online seller that will remain unnamed, that was so dry, it was half dust when I received it. I was not amused.

My hydration trick of taking an old business card, putting that on top of a tin/jar amount of tobacco, and have a moistened toilet tissue square folded on top of that, re-hydrates tobacco about as good as new in about 48 hours. When the tin is opened two days later, the TP square is dry, and the tobacco magically moist. The only reason why the TP seems to work better than other vessels is the easy size and consistency of the moistened material...just took some practice getting the right amount of water...not sopping, obviously...to the point it won't drip if you pinch it between index finger and thumb...and the business card helps spread the moisture, protects the 'bacca from direct contact...bah, details. It just seems to work, better than hot water sweats, better than spray bottles, and easy to remove the whole ordeal after it is done in a couple of days (very recommended: paper loves to mold even more than tobacco).

The baccaweed likes suckin' up moisture when it's dry, that's for sure.

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Let me see if I have this right.

Water is necessary for aging but not for storage of single-source tobacco. The dryness of that tobacco makes it storable until it is conditioned and blended. During this process water is added and subtracted various times depending on the blending/cutting.

Which leads me to bulk tobacco. Does it matter if it comes to me dry or very dry? Does such dryness simply stop metabolization but not contribute to flavor loss? SG boxed bulk was notorious for poor packaging during 2001-2008? Even with the ramped up packaging of today I still received a very dry lb of 1792. I sent it back. Was that an error? If I had put the moisture "right" would it then be ready to go? Bulk tobacco sometimes comes sealed more or less airtight, as in a lb of Dan Limerick I bought. But then sometimes it comes with a packaging flaw or damaged, itself, like the 1792.

Cause to worry? Flavor loss?

 

[Kyle Weiss]

My understanding:

Moisture: pliability/processing/smoking flavor transfer (upon smoking) of the tobacco

Volatile compounds (et al): the flavor or essence of the tobacco itself (smell and/or taste upon smoking)

Moisture can be lost or gained in the leaf, but if you lose the VCs, there's no puttin' those back. Good storage/packaging of the final product keeps both where it ought to be. Bad (or no) packaging dealt with by moving it to good storage as soon as possible.

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

Yes, those saviors of flavor explanations, the VCs, stealthy and furtive like the Viet Cong hiding their identity, difficult to capture. That term has been floating about these boards for as long as I. I don't understand, tobacco reverence having been what it is, that the chemistry of tobacco hasn't become known.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

The "tobacco code" has been broken most likely, but it's either via self-interested health groups (antis, etc) or by the cigarette manufacturers, and they don't exactly focus directly on that stuff as much (nor are they willing to divulge their findings). All we can do is trust our taster-bits and guess outside the lab. That's all the cultivators did way-back-when, and seemed to have done a pretty good job from what I read tobacco used to be, versus what it is now. If anyone has the knowledge of such things, it's Mr. Pease. I think he has a small, borg-esque, tobacco-tuned chemistry lab installed in his prefrontal cortex and palate.

 

[loneredtree]

I am not a burley smoker by choice. I bought some cans of tobacco at a estate sale a few months ago.

As near as I can tell the tobac is 40+ years old. It is veeeery dry! The la still smells smokey after all these years. It does not appear to have lost the esters. I have not tried it.

But, why not the burley? It had the nutty flavor that I have heard about and was quite good. Not much vitimin N. Maybe it was lost? :scratch: I re-hydrated some a bit and tried again. Not bad but I preferred the dry . Go figure.

END OF REPORT.

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

You really bought tobacco history. The tobacco is ultra-aged and bound to be very different.

 

[Anonymous]

"[T]he difference between the identities of the archetypal products and the others is the result of more than just the ingredients, more than the terroir, more than the grain, milk or vines, and more than the methods used to complete them. The place in which the ingredients are brought together, the environment in which the dough rises, the cheese ages and the wine ferments, has its own distinct influence on the final product, and that cannot be replicated."

Relevant, I suspect, to the "taste" of Castello & similarly noteworthy Italian pipes.

:face:

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I suspect people have a "final product" differences, too. Call me crazy. :cheers: Human Volatile Compounds? :lol:

8)
(...I call them "friends"...)

 

[williamcharles]

I received a pound of 1792 today. The cellophane that SG uses for its bulk prodcuts was absent. The tobacco is very dry, ~6%. Mike Rutt has agreed to a return given my argument that bulk tobacco exposed to the environment for a long enough period of time to become that dry would have lost flavor. However, Mr. Pease states that tobacco processors purposely dry out the tobacco, for a variety of reasons. Also, I remember seeing a video of the Mac Baren tobacco warehouse stuffed with bales of what I presume was dry tobacco waiting to be conditioned and blended.

You can't tell me that the big tobacco interests would dry tobacco and store it dry if it is true that drying and exposure to the environment subtracts from flavor.

Yes?

From raw, unprocessed tobacco...no...how could it since there's very little, if any, flavor to begin with? Burley that I've smoked right out of the barn was like smoking hot air. The virginia was a little better but if that's all I had to smoke I don't think I would bother.

From processed tobacco...it sure does. Slice some GH&Co sweet rum twist and smoke a bowl of it dried out and one straight from the twist. Or use one of your favs.
The loss of flavor is more than noticeable when I smoke that twist dry plus it blunts my taste. I stopped drying my tobacco and now I'm tasting again. I'm glad I only dried a bowl at a a time.
Seems to me you not only loose flavor, at least in some blends, but that other things happen as well when the tobac is too dry.