Single Barrel, Small Batch and Small Scale Bourbon

[Zeno Marx]

I'm looking forward to trying both some High West product and Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey. High West Double Rye and Stranahan's are both within my budget reason, but the other High West products are out of my reach. Then again, the only liquor store in town to carry any High West product is very much a boutique store. I think their least price on High West is $85. I see you can find the Double Rye online for around $35.

 

[glpease]

I'm looking forward to trying both some High West product and Stranahan's Colorado Whiskey. High West Double Rye and Stranahan's are both within my budget reason, but the other High West products are out of my reach. Then again, the only liquor store in town to carry any High West product is very much a boutique store. I think their least price on High West is $85. I see you can find the Double Rye online for around $35.

I'm pretty fortunate to have a friend who has a deep passion for good spirits, and can afford his hobby. I get to try stuff I'd never buy, though this blade cuts with both edges. Sometimes, he pours me something I desperately want, but cannot get, either because of cost or availability. (His seemingly never ending parade of amazing, "unavailable" bottles is a lot of fun to watch - and taste. "You're not going to actually OPEN that, are you?" "Of course I am. That's what it's for. Let's taste!" He's definitely got the right attitude, though I'm not always sure his wife agrees!)

I bring the rare tobaccos, he brings the spirits. It's certainly the formula for a good time!

 

[LPcreation]

Bourbon is my thing! I'll add a few thoughts and touch on a bourbon or two I haven't seen mentioned....

Booker's is fantastic and absolutely worth it, but it should be reserved for special occassions only. It's easily the strongest bourbon I've had and it's surprisingly smooth with a LONG finish. The deep amber color and vanilla/caramel notes really come through. Old Grandad 101 is comparable for cheaper. It's not on the same level as Booker's but still good and crazy strong with a long finish.

I found Bulliet to be hit or miss. I seem to remember the brand switched distillers (i think Four Roses was involved) and whenever the switch took place, quality control suffered. Regardless, it's pretty cheap so I almost always have a bottle.

While I'm on value bourbons, Buffalo Trace cannot be beat. $20-$25 for a bottle and quality bourbon. Lots of vanilla in this one. I like it with 1 or 2 rocks, but it's fine to drink straight. It's my everyday bourbon.

Anyone try the Maker's 46? They use a different aging process (i think french oak). It's good but has a different finish than most bourbons. My wife loves mixing it with Barq's root beer. I like 46 or Angel's Envy (bourbon aged in port wine barrel) to mix it up.

Woodford Reserve is another great bourbon, although it's in the upper range of price. I think it's the bourbon of the Kentucky Derby. I personally think it's a small step up from Buffalo Trace with a big jump in price. That's not knocking Woodford as much as it's complimenting BT. Woodford is really good stuff and worth the price (because BT is a steal).

Knob Creek is nice and has a really strong finish. Charred wood is what I get.

I'll pipe down now......love the thread!

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

A Review:

Jim Beam White - One of the first I bought; rowdy
Jim Beam Red - very smooth, not much taste, good value
Eagle Rare - elegant, tasty
Evan Williams Single Barrel 2001 - thick, strong caramel and spice notes, luscious
Four Roses - a taste combination of Eagle Rare and Evan Williams - delightful
Jack Daniels - contender for the best value in both taste and price, especially in the 1.75

 

[LPcreation]

Jack Daniels isn't really bourbon. They call themselves a "tennessee whiskey" (even if they're legal defined as a bourbon). They run their stuff through maple charcoal prior to barrelling which is a no-no in the bourbon world.

 

[puros_bran]

Two things. 1. Although Tennessee's Pride, Jack Daniels, is owned by a Louisville Ky based corporation it IS NOT bourbon.
2. The real good stuff never leaves the state.


Keep supporting Kentuckys economy, and please drink yourself into oblivian responsibly.

 

[puros_bran]

And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.

 

[LPcreation]

And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.

I'm pretty sure it is.

However, Tennessee whiskey is required to be "a straight Bourbon Whiskey" under terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement,[10] and Canadian law,[11] and there is no other legal definition of the term "Tennessee whiskey" (other than U.S. law governing the definition of "whiskey" in general).

Link

Tennessee whiskey is Straight Bourbon Whiskey produced in the state of Tennessee.[1][2][3] This definition is legally established under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)[1] and at least one other international trade agreement[2] that require that Tennessee whiskey be "a straight Bourbon Whiskey authorized to be produced only in the State of Tennessee", and the law of Canada,[3] which states that Tennessee whiskey must be "a straight Bourbon whisky produced in the State of Tennessee".

I could be interpretting it wrong, but that's what I meant by being "legally defined" as a bourbon.

 

[puros_bran]

I don't give a damn what NAFTA, ITA, or Wikipedia says. Lol

 

[glpease]

And it IS NOT legally defined as a bourbon. Bourbon is a Kentucky Product..
Scotch from Scotland, Champaigne from France, Bourbon from Kentucky.

Turns out this isn't quite the case. Bourbon is legally defined as a whiskey made in the US from a grain mash containing at least 51% corn, aged, however briefly, in new, charred oak barrels, and bottled at 80˚proof, or higher. There are some other technical requirements regarding minimum and maximum proof at distillation, and so on, and when age declarations are mandatory. I don't think this has always been true, and that at one time, whiskey had to come from Kentucky to be labeled as Bourbon, but it is the current legal definition within the US.

I'm not sure whether the filtering that takes place with Tennessee whiskey disqualifies it as a bourbon or not, according to US laws, but the end result is certainly different enough that it deserves its own classification, and NAFTA allows it to be classified as Bourbon Whiskey. (Not that NAFTA should have a vote in the matter...)

 

[Zeno Marx]

Isn't there a The Kinks song that goes "Where have all the good times gone?"

 

[LPcreation]

I don't give a damn what NAFTA, ITA, or Wikipedia says. Lol

hahaha, I know what you mean and I'm in total agreement!

 

[puros_bran]

Esteemed Greg, Master of Tastecular Arts, Hero to the Masses, and friend:
I refer you to my last post on the topic.

Bourbon was born in Kentucky, Bourbon is made in Kentucky.. Everything else is just whiskey. Some politician or bureaucrat playing with definitions doesn't change that.

It is very much like the roll your own crowd relabeling their wares as 'pipe tobacco'. It's not, we know it's not, and anyone that says otherwise is less than dependable.

 

[mark]

some of the others mentioned in the article I suspect are being greedily consumed not far from the distillery and fail to make a lengthy journey to my local liquor stores,,,

Two things. 1. blah blah blah blah blah,,,,,,2. The real good stuff never leaves the state.

I rest my case,,,,,buncha nectar hoarding greedy backwoods hooligans,,,,

 

[glpease]

Bourbon was born in Kentucky, Bourbon is made in Kentucky.. Everything else is just whiskey. Some politician or bureaucrat playing with definitions doesn't change that.

It is very much like the roll your own crowd relabeling their wares as 'pipe tobacco'. It's not, we know it's not, and anyone that says otherwise is less than dependable.

Touché on all counts!

 

[alfredo_buscatti]

I think the argument for a spirit being genuine based on where it was made misses the point. It is by attaining the minimum number of qualities considered to constitute a class that a thing attains the right to be included in that class. Just as excellent champagnes are produced outside of Champagne, so too good bourbons are produced outside of Kentucky.

 

[Ol'Dawg]

Alfredo,

If you were from a state that was famous for their whiskeys or bourbons, then I think you would better understand Puros and others feelings about their reasoning. Being originally from and raised in Tennessee, I've been a primary drinker of what used to be known as the "other" Tennessee whiskey, George Dickel. There are three distilleries in Tennessee now that Prichards is starting to make their way into the market.

To me it's somewhat of a pride issue...and my feelings are similar to Puros, i.e. Bourbon is made in Kentucky and Tennessee whiskey is made in Tennessee no matter how Nafta, ATF and other govt. agencies try to classify or define them.

Jim

 

[glpease]

I think the argument for a spirit being genuine based on where it was made misses the point. It is by attaining the minimum number of qualities considered to constitute a class that a thing attains the right to be included in that class. Just as excellent champagnes are produced outside of Champagne, so too good bourbons are produced outside of Kentucky.

But, that's the problem, isn't it? If I buy Champagne, I expect Champagne, not a sparkling wine made through méthode champenoise somewhere else in the world. I expect something very specific that intimately involves the terroir of of the grapes, the native wild yeasts, the time-honoured traditions of production, and, yes, even the molds growing on the walls of the caves. An Italian Proseco, a Spanish Cava, or a California sparkling wine isn't the same thing.

It was deemed misleading for California producers to give a sparkling wine a French sounding name, call it Champagne, and sell it as such, so the FTC got involved. Similarly, Burgundy is not a generic red wine sold in a jug, but something produced in a specific area of France. The French have a long tradition of the AOC, and it's important to them. It should be important to the rest of the world, too, to respect that tradition.

I actually find myself on the same side of the fence when it comes to Bourbon, even though it's less clearly defined. Whiskey is a distilled spirit. Bourbon is a specific distilled spirit, made in a specific way, originally from a specific area. Does it all have to come from Bourbon County? That's another question.

Tennessee Whiskey has enough of a unique character that it deserves to be separated from Kentucky Bourbon. They're both brown spirits, but they're different things. I guess the point is that Bourbon is whiskey, but whiskey isn't Bourbon, unless it's made there.

Scotch is made in Scotland. Other countries produce malt whisky, but it's not Scotch. Other countries can produce unpeated pot-still barley and grain whisky, but it's not Irish.

Most of these things are pretty obvious. Bourbon's definition, not so much.

 

[jefe1037]

With due respect, the ATF has very specific rules for Bourbon.

--It has to be at least 51% Corn in the Mash

--Aged In Charred, NEW White Oak Barrels(most of the old ones get cut in half and sold to the gentry as planters... look for these all over central kentucky on people's front porches and back decks)

--Made in the USA

--Multiple proof requirements based on distillation strength, barrel strength and bottling strength.

For the ATF to allow Bourbon to be printed on the Label, these are the criteria to be met.

Kentucky is the traditional source, but that is because of the High Limestone content in the water with almost no Iron. (similar to scotland, go figure... the water is the real source of the character)

Kentucky and tennesse share the same watershed, but Tennessee whiskey is "charcoal mellowed" rather than aged in charred oak barrels. This is not a strict labeling rule, just the twist on the rules to let jack daniels print whatever he wants

Woodford Reserve has the best distillery tour... went on a bottling day, so we got to taste it at barrel strenght...WOO!

Go to kentucky, bet on some horses, drink some bourbon, smoke a pipe in a tobacco field. It feels right....

drink a Bottle of Ale8 and get some Hall's Beer cheese and fried banana peppers for pro points

 

[ArleighBerg]

I have limited experience but self-absorbedly refined tastes, I have found that some of the better bourbons are awfully fine spirits. I will agree with the early discussion in this thread regarding Booker’s. Its my current favorite if I’m out, but I have yet to purchase a bottle for home.
Jim Beam – the lowest I’ll go. This is a mixing bourbon only, for a simple coke mixer or if I want a fast Manhattan. I pay in the neighborhood of $19 US for a 750ml.
Maker’s Mark – the standard for a lot of people. It has a nice flavor and body, and is fine as a sipper. I tend to use this as my go-to bar stock for Manhattans and other mixers. Everybody seems to like it, and the only one of the bunch I’d drink on the rocks. $27-29 US for a 750ml.

Maker’s 46 – only slightly more cost than standard Maker’s and a far better taste. The extra barrel time gives it a very enjoyable smoothness. Highly recommended if you can find it. $35 US for a 750ml.

Knob Creek – in my opinion the standard 9 year small batch is the equal to Maker’s in cost and general characteristics. Around here it tends to be on sale and therefore cheaper than Maker’s. It is also slightly higher proof. I like the taste the best of these mid-range bourbons and it has been my main purchase for a few months now (over Maker’s). Knob Creek makes a 12 year version that, like the Maker’s 46, is well worth the slightly extra cost. Knob is a Jim Beam brand as well.

Evan Williams Vintage – purchased on a whim. I thought it was on par with the Maker’s 46 – more taste, less heaviness on the tongue, very smooth aftertaste and a pleasant fruitiness on the palate after swallowing. I would buy this again. Sorry – don’t recall the price but it was more than Maker’s 46 and less than Booker’s.

Booker’s – this is the only bourbon I’ve tried that made me instantly say “this is REALLY good”. Noticeably better than the others on my list. I’m not sure what to say about Booker’s other than if you are a fan of whisky and bourbon you will appreciate it a lot. I like this neat with a small splash of water, which brings out the flavor in an amazing way.