Smartphone News

[Richard Burley]

TracPhone. Twenty bucks and thrown in glovebox. Never turn it on. Don't call me, I'll call you.

 

[dshpipes]

TracPhone. Twenty bucks and thrown in glovebox. Never turn it on. Don't call me, I'll call you.

This made me smile. Richard Burley, fighting the good fight against ultra connectivity and probably living a richer life because of it.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I'm not sure why the misunderstanding a clear fact here:

This is a guess, but percentage of people who outright buy a phone at $700: less than 1%. Percentage of folks that purchase a phone via a contract that carries them from month-to-month for an agreed amount, that either makes the phone significantly cheaper, or in some cases free: 99%

Therefore, the phone is not worth $700 to a vast minority, if any, of individual consumer. If the companies pay this amount, that's their business. The profit goes to the electronic companies producing them, which comes from the cell companies, who turn around and peddle various contracts for more money. That's America for ya. *shrug* Let's say for argument's sake a $700 phone is paid for at full price. Five years go by...can you recoup any of the cost? Half? A quarter? Maybe 10%? No, it's recyclable trash--incidentally, something the cell phone companies want you to do with them, because they can scrap the components for raw materials and effect their bottom line even more. Which very much so matters when it comes to production cost...and contracts of their own with these silicon sweatshops. $700 is an arbitrary amount set on what people are willing to not take them to court over in case the contract goes sour--it is not a market value, it's just what the carriers are willing to pay for them--that the people get stuck with if they screw up.

No one is wrong here, just not seeing things objectively. I mean, no offense, Dave, but I'm not going to discuss vehicle engineering and design with the salesman. It's just not what they do.

I worked for a battery distributor here in the west. One of the things we did was store and provide transit logistics for the backup power banks for cell towers. I found out more than half of them are NOT owned by cellular companies: they are privately-held and public companies, some big, some small, that you have never heard of. Why does this matter? Because communications has always been a huge business, and everyone wants in. The only reason why it isn't a monopoly is because, I suspect, these companies (on paper) have more in common with each other than not. It's a little different than AT&T recently acquiring T-Mobile, or the other end of the business...the acquisition of frequency license ownership--of which is controlled and regulated by the FCC.

This doesn't make me an expert, either, but it opened my eyes to what else is going on just beneath the surface. Wanna know why I don't care in the end? My horse in in a different race: I'm in the precious metals end of the commodities industry...please, buy your phones, contracts, or whatever at whichever place you see fit. It give me a future.

The contracts are stupid, but people eat 'em up. What can ya do? Apparently open up avenues for half-million dollar fines for people wanting to put the cell phone equivalent of a Ford 351 in a '69 Chevy Nova and then running them on public highways. Oh good heavens, the horror! :lol: Stupid.

8)
thinking of the children

 

[puros_bran]

I don't know where you are getting your facts Kyle.... but they are wrong.

The rest of the world buys their phones out right... instant majority.
Then add, TMobile, Boost, Cricket, Virgin, Straight Talk, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and apparently Verizon and ATT headed that route in the near future.

besides, people pay it every day man... either hidden in contract cost.. OR
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Cell-Phones-Smartphones-/9355/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=iphone5&_pppn=r1&_dcat=9355&LH_BIN=1

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=iphone5&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=9355&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R1&_nkw=samsung+galaxy+s3&_sacat=9355

 

[puros_bran]

Also.. every two years I sell our phones via ebay and generally average around $350 which allows contract purchase on new phones and $150 in my pocket.... IF you think they are recyclable junk please mail me everyone you can lay hands on and I'll recycle them.. for a minor fee of course. sucker.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I'm pulling my balding follicles out.

The USA is the contract leader. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the world. The entire world isn't instituting a stupid law where people are getting fined $500,000 or prison time for hacking their phones to switch carriers. This is only limited in discussion, scope and value to the United States of America. I should have used fine print, because we're the contract lovin' SOB's. :lol:
$700 phones is not what we pay here, directly. Value NOT determined by a consuming public, but by artisan contract designers. Meaning, if you want a phone, you pay $700, get rung up at the register and have a great time. That's not what happens in the USA, people would **** skittles if they had to pay for a phone with a price tag of $700 up-front. If you have that kind of action, it's a TracPhone like Richard suggested, and it's not $700. Like I said before, $200 is less than $700, so people are like, "Oh, golly-gee, I can do that!"

In that light, the Internet service providers have yet to jump on this bandwagon as a whole. You can still buy whatever router to whatever service you choose, depending on their network connections, and it works well. Eventually, they may start leasing out computers, iPads, etc for service (meaning, you get it for "free" or low cost) but if you skip out on the contract, you pay the full price. $400 iPads and $700 laptops will become $1200 iPads and $3000 laptops, thanks to contracts. People enjoy thinking they pay less and are getting more, and the system is the opposite.

Which is why laws like that come about, protecting the interests of the cellular companies, providers, network holders and probably somewhere in the line, the component/end user products.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

That's why I said every five years for usability, you poof. I sure hope your sold phones aren't being hacked and used to on different carriers, PeeB, that'd make you an accessory. :lol: The cell companies would much rather you just give 'em to THEM so they can make you feel good about phones not getting caught in an endangered sea turtle's throat, which is a huge problem, I bet.

You can find old-ass phones at thrift/junk stores for $2 a pop. Have at it, brother. :mrgreen:

PS, I have reconsidered my figures: Less than 1% of folks buying cell phones up-front cost raised to 4% due to the plausibility of eBay storefronts. Fine. You got me. :lol:

8)

 

[Anonymous]

It's legalised extortion, guys.

Same ******** as requiring TV stations to dump analogue broadcasting so nobody could watch it for free anymore.

Now it's ALL digital. Which means some scumbucket telecom gets to charge you extortionate rates to let you access it.

The same scumbucket outfits that were supposed to raise the US internet delivery to . . . third world standards. But never did because it wasn't lucrative.

It's like you're so hypnotised by the "contract" idea you can't see the noses in front of your faces.

Which is that the whole system's straight Fascism. Company profits are first and foremost ; the actual people they're serving exploiting can go eat ****.

:face:

 

[kaiser83]

Companies want to make money. People want to save money while having nice crap. The companies win out every time because people are selfish. People say "it isn't fair" while the companies say "bend over and take it". Life sucks and then we die. It's just a stupid phone, if our lives stopped revolving around phones and the internet and these online forums of crazy folks we'd be better off, yet here we type while the birds chirp outside (or the snow falls). Sicken, enlighten, anger, please, whatever it is in life you expect these companies to give you...they want to make money more and for one person who says "eff the system" and steps away from it all another 10 jump into it (okay probably way more). Regardless....it's a stupid phone.

Go smoke a pipe and drink a glass of Old Number 7 while listening to the birds because in that you will find happiness that a phone will never give you.

 

[dshpipes]

I mean, no offense, Dave, but I'm not going to discuss vehicle engineering and design with the salesman. It's just not what they do.

No offense taken, but I'd be a pretty lousy salesman and manager if I didn't have some idea of how things operate, just like I wouldn't trust a car salesman who didn't know how a combustion engine works. I mean no offense here either, my friend, but can you talk circles around me about the engineering, design, and manufacture of cell phones? Considering your knowledge of all things random, I wouldn't be surprised, but I am curious.

It's legalised extortion, guys.

Same ******** as requiring TV stations to dump analogue broadcasting so nobody could watch it for free anymore.

Now it's ALL digital. Which means some scumbucket telecom gets to charge you extortionate rates to let you access it.

The same scumbucket outfits that were supposed to raise the US internet delivery to . . . third world standards. But never did because it wasn't lucrative.

It's like you're so hypnotised by the "contract" idea you can't see the noses in front of your faces.

Which is that the whole system's straight Fascism. Company profits are first and foremost ; the actual people they're serving exploiting can go eat ****.

:face:

The digital signal that comes to my house is free. I don't pay for cable television (don't have it) and I don't pay for digital broadcast channels (which I do have).

On the whole, I'm just befuddled by what I'm hearing and it sounds like you and Kyle are too. I'm really not sure how to get on the same page. I'll argue my point in response to you guys but I'm not sure we're seeing eye to eye or are going to. I'll preface by saying that I think the size of the penalty is ridiculous but that the penalty itself is not because a 2 year, legally binding contract is involved. Now, if you don't like the contract, buy a phone at full retail, bring in an old phone, buy a phone online and activate it or buy a prepay phone like RB. No contract required, no disconnect fees, and no issue taking the device to another carrier.

The general public of the US does not understand that these devices are more expensive than what they pay with a contract. Granted. They probably would pay those retail prices, though, if there were a better understanding of what they were buying. The market share of smartphones would likely decrease, so there's little impetus for cell phone companies to change their tack. Example: the iPad. No contract for that device. You pay full price at $650 for the device and you pay for monthly service if you want it. One of the hottest and highest selling devices over the holiday. The main thing here is that no one is accustomed to paying more for a phone and since "Smart Phones" are still considered "just phones" by many, people see them as such and presume they should be cheaper as a result of a lack of understanding.

Let's say I sell stickers. My stickers are in demand and therefore a little more costly than other stickers. I sell a page of them for $10. Someone approaches me and says, "Damn, those are some amazing stickers! Sucks though, I don't have $10." I say, "Tell you what, pay me $2 now and over the next two months you can pay me back." They agree and tell their friends about the great deal I'm offering on my stickers. People come flocking. Only problem is, I realize that about half of the people who agree to pay me back don't. What do I do to recoup my costs? I'd probably get the law involved with some kind of binding agreement which would legally insure that I'd get paid back. What I wouldn't do is demand a $500,000 fine for people who didn't pay me back. Although it is a great deterrent.

Does all this mean that my stickers are only worth $2? I could sell them at $10 a pop, but then my customer base would get smaller. It behooves me to take a small payment up front in order to secure more customers in the long run.

What that law is doing is preventing people from breaking their legal contract. I don't think it unreasonable to include and discuss the contract in this conversation. I also don't think the contract unreasonable. No one is signing away their children, they're just agreeing to stick with a single phone carrier for two years.

I don't really understand why a legal contract, or any part of the system in which cell phones are bought and sold, is fascism, legalized extortion, or anything like either of these. Is signing a legal contract for a mortgage in the same category?

I'll reiterate: if you don't like the contract, buy a phone at full retail, bring in an old phone, buy a phone online and activate it or buy a prepay phone like RB. No contract required, no disconnect fees, and no issue taking the device to another carrier.

So at the end of the day, if you don't like the system, then protest it by not participating.

 

[dshpipes]

Companies want to make money. People want to save money while having nice crap. The companies win out every time because people are selfish. People say "it isn't fair" while the companies say "bend over and take it". Life sucks and then we die. It's just a stupid phone, if our lives stopped revolving around phones and the internet and these online forums of crazy folks we'd be better off, yet here we type while the birds chirp outside (or the snow falls). Sicken, enlighten, anger, please, whatever it is in life you expect these companies to give you...they want to make money more and for one person who says "eff the system" and steps away from it all another 10 jump into it (okay probably way more). Regardless....it's a stupid phone.

Go smoke a pipe and drink a glass of Old Number 7 while listening to the birds because in that you will find happiness that a phone will never give you.

Wisest thing any of us have said, if you ask me. Here here!

 

[BigCasino]

It's legalised extortion, guys.

Same ******** as requiring TV stations to dump analogue broadcasting so nobody could watch it for free anymore.

Now it's ALL digital. Which means some scumbucket telecom gets to charge you extortionate rates to let you access it.

The same scumbucket outfits that were supposed to raise the US internet delivery to . . . third world standards. But never did because it wasn't lucrative.

It's like you're so hypnotised by the "contract" idea you can't see the noses in front of your faces.

Which is that the whole system's straight Fascism. Company profits are first and foremost ; the actual people they're serving exploiting can go eat ****.

:face:

I have both a satelite dish and a tv antenna I get A whole pile more stations now than I ever did over the air now that over the air broadcasts are in HD, and yes they are still FREE

 

[Anonymous]

You just bought the dish & the antenna, hooked them up, and there you were ?

No monthly bill(s) ?

It's looking like I must not understand this after all . . .

:face:

 

[puros_bran]

Keep pulling your hair folicles..


its a $700 phone.. period. The cell company pays $500 of it for you if you sign a contract.
taking the phone they just dumped $500 on and running off to another carrier is stealing. Feign outrage, be mad, stick your head in the sand.. I don't care.. but if someone was taking $500 out of your pocket you'd want the law to protect you too.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Keep pulling your hair folicles..


its a $700 phone.. period. The cell company pays $500 of it for you if you sign a contract.
taking the phone they just dumped $500 on and running off to another carrier is stealing. Feign outrage, be mad, stick your head in the sand.. I don't care.. but if someone was taking $500 out of your pocket you'd want the law to protect you too.

*sigh*

Mad? Outrage? No, brother. Not at all. I have no dog in this fight, it's just a funny concept on my end. It isn't a $700 phone, it's a phone with a "suggested retail value" that only sees the light of day on breach of contract in vast majority cases involving cellular phone consumption in the USA. No more than my 4Runner is a Mercedes, because I change the hood emblem and go complain to someone because some guy was only willing to give me $1000 for it. Since the money was never in my pocket, no one is out anything. Counting eggs does not guarantee chickens. Imaginary eggs included via contracts. I suppose I could be really smart, which I'm not, and convince the guy he can drive it for two years for only $100 a month, because wow, only $100, not $1000...that'd be alright. If he breaks contract, take the stupid jerk to court. He signed the document. I would need someone to fight for me, then. Poor me. :lol:

No offense taken, but I'd be a pretty lousy salesman and manager if I didn't have some idea of how things operate, just like I wouldn't trust a car salesman who didn't know how a combustion engine works. I mean no offense here either, my friend, but can you talk circles around me about the engineering, design, and manufacture of cell phones? Considering your knowledge of all things random, I wouldn't be surprised, but I am curious. Smile

Well, of course, but there's a pretty big, wide and deep rabbit hole beyond what many salespeople of any goods really knows about them--or they wouldn't be salespeople. I've talked to enough car sales guys that couldn't tell the difference between a piston ring and a seat cover, that isn't really a good example...I'm sure you know a little beyond which end to talk in to the phone, which helps in your line of work. :lol: The engineering, design and manufacture of cell phones are like any electronic device, with a few different components. Yeah, I know a few things about them, but specifics? No. They're microcomponent radio devices with viewscreens and digital software operating systems, and resistors, capacitors, diodes and IC's are so small that they're beyond human repair; thus, disposable...they ain't an old tube radio or a synthesizer. Beyond that, they'd take searching and geekery far beyond what I give a crap about with cell phones, and since designs and features change every six months, that's bad enough. I went through that as a PC tech/network admin as chips/memory/operating systems/datasets/cabling changed, if you weren't on it, you were lost. :lol: Lame job. Rocks are less complicated, and change a little slower.

8)

 

[Kyle Weiss]

This is all fascinating to debate, but I really don't care. We can keep going on about supposed $700 phones. Maybe we could turn this into a discussion about how all business contracts must be fulfilled no matter what, especially to recoup suggested loss, because most of that circus has little to do with the goods/prices involved, but the contract itself. That would be far more interesting.

(kidding) :no:

8)

 

[puros_bran]

And I'm telling you that it's a $700 device.. not a $700 MSRP Device. Go prepaid and check the cost (and trust me it's far greater than the imaginary 1% statistic you made up that do this).. Go buy an unlocked and check the price. Go outside the states and check the price.

There's a company that signs on owner operators and only charges them $1.25 for diesel fuel. They pay the remainder (theoretically via fuel surcharge but in actuality that plus percentage skim on billable miles) The company will terminate the contract if they catch them selling fuel off their card or fueling personal vehicles with it.. Why? Because $1.25 is not the price of diesel fuel and using that fuel for anything besides the contractual agreement is theft.


I won't shut up here...lol

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Besides diesel fuel being a commodity that is refined several times from a raw product here in the States, and is bought/sold/traded several times before it goes in a rig, it has little in common (besides the contract) with the cell phone scenario on a domestic consumption level. Please, don't shut up, I swear I'll believe you, but convince me, dammit. :lol: :heart:

So I threw out 1%; find me the actual number of full-market price transactions paid for a phone versus those who acquire a phone via contract, just for *****'n'gigs. Yeah, I guessed. I bet I'm closer than you could be, though. I'll even stand by my 4% changed estimate. :mrgreen:

Your $700 phone can sit 'n spin. :lol: MSRP isn't even mentioned in phone contracts (a static number at the time of the phone is purchased via contract) because they know the "value" of the phone, as it ages in two years (average contract) will change based on what people are willing to pay, and that hedges against further loss...accountants are smarter than you and me, PeeB. And if it depreciates (changes) that much, the only time it's a $700 phone is to the dummies who buy them the first day of release without a contract. Next month? Oh, it's now a $650 phone. Quick, $50 just got taken out of the consumer's pocket! Arrest someone!

8)

 

[puros_bran]

I've showed you a half a dozen links.. your to dumb to click 'em... you can lead a horse to water...........

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I've showed you a half a dozen links.. your to dumb to click 'em... you can lead a horse to water...........

None of those links gave me any relevant purchasing percentages. Minus points for eBay listings. Ham sandwich. And you only gave me half a half dozen links.