"The Ketchup Smell" - McClelland Red Va Blends

[scotties22]

I had a chance to talk to Mike McNeil at the Greater Kansas City Pipe Club meeting last night. I asked him about the tin note that his Va blends have since it is discussed here quite a bit. Mike gave me some answers I thought I would share.

The Red Va that Mike gets is grown to have a much higher sugar content than what other blenders use (on purpose!). The sugar content is so high that it actually starts to ferment after about 3 weeks once Mike has it in his facility.

After it is tinned Mike does not vacuum all the air out of the tins as many blenders do. He leaves a little air to help the fermentation along. The ketchup smell is actually the aromatic byproduct of fermentation. If any of you have cigars and have ever noticed a slight "off" smell as they go through a fermentation cycle it's the same thing.

Mike does indead tin McCranie's Red Ribbon and Flake. It is a tinned version of 5100 Red Cake.

I'm not trying to start some big ass complicated old man pissing contest......ssssooooooo please let's not get this thread locked within the first 24 hours. I just wanted to share what the man behind the curtain had to say.

I hope I have helped :twisted:

 

[Richard Burley]

Locked or not, it's a great post, Scottie. I suspected something like this. Thanks for posting.

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

While the info about the source of the ketchup like aroma is not news to me, the info about McCranies Ribbon being tinned Red Cake is. In fact I am really surprised that he would share that info. That's real insider kind of stuff.

Thanks Scottie! I really like McCranies Red Ribbon. Now I know that jarring up some Red Cake for a spell at a fraction of the cost will probably yield very similar results. 8)

 

[monbla256]

Have been smoking McC's Va's since 1994 and for me I NEVER smelled this famous KETCHUP aroma just the aroma of the Red V'a that I used to smell when I went to Durham with my uncle to sell his tobacco when I was a kid. It was told to me then that THATS what Red Va's smell like when FLUE CURED ! Greg Pease has written about this many times and yet folks just seem to want to perpetuate this idea !! Oh well :twisted: :twisted:
And as far as the Red Ribbon being the same as 5100 RC, for anyone who's smoked much of both can tell that they are the SAME !! But it's good to hear these facts from the "horses mouth" as they say ! Thanks Scottie !! :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Carlos]

I kind of take "a tinned version" to mean similar to, but not exactly the same. Georgetown Tobacco has tinned versions also. I seem to recall them being smoother. Probably due to age in the tin. But it could also be differing years of crops. Or a slight blend adjustment.

It's all good stuff! :sunny:

 

[Kyle Weiss]

I'm not trying to start some big ass complicated old man pissing contest......ssssooooooo please let's not get this thread locked within the first 24 hours.  I just wanted to share what the man behind the curtain had to say.

I hope I have helped :twisted:

:lol!:  

Yes you did, on both declarations.   :lol:    You rascal.

:lol!:  


My only qualms with his statements are "vacuuming all the air" out of a tin--of course he doesn't do that, I don't think anyone does.   Because they can't. From what I gather, the machinery wasn't designed to do that, it's just to hold the lid on and keep the product moist, stable & sealed for a while. There's always a little atmosphere in the tins, and (again) from my understanding on the Pease side of things, there should be.   Same goes with the fermenting part, a lot more (and different) processes go along with what tobacco does in any given tin.   It's a nuance.   The good news is, whatever process/leaf he uses, obviously it's a marker to the consistency of the product.   In others, it's kind of like working at a bakery (or a ketchup factory)--you don't smell what those not around it day-in and day-out smell.   So they get nothing.  

Something tells me the dude gave you the scripted answer he probably gets from fielding the Monblahs of the world:  "I NEVER smell ketchup!  What are these people smoking?"  ...or the Nonblahs:    "What's WITH THE KETCHUP Mike?"    

Short, quick, gets 'em to go away.  

8)

 

[scotties22]

Kyle, if you ever get the chance to talk to Mike in person you'll know he tells ya the truth or nothing at all. And it's usually followed by the phrase "because I just don't give a ****." That's Mike. No pap, no "company line"....he will either tell you or not. Another club member, Steve Stein, was in on the conversation last night and gave Mike a good "ketchup" comment a few times.

Let me rephrase the vacuum comment. Mike says he leaves more air (he said a percentage, although he didn't give me the exact number) in his tins than others do.

Mike likes to talk too much to have trade secrets anyway :lol:



Carlos, McCranie's is just tinned up 5100. Maybe "version" was the wrong choice of words. McCranie's is from select years. The way I understand it Mike tins "years worth" at a time from a tin count standpoint. Then ships it as needed. The reason they are on the 2008 crop still is that they haven't sold all the tins that Mike made for them. Until they do he will just make 5100 out of whatever the crop yeilds.

He actually told me last night he has about 8 years worth (from a sales side of thing) of a blend (I don't remember which one) he thought would sell well and it hasn't taken off like he hoped. Needless to say he won't be making any more of it for a while.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Kyle, if you ever get the chance to talk to Mike in person you'll know he tells ya the truth or nothing at all.  And it's usually followed by the phrase "because I just don't give a ****."  That's Mike.  No pap, no "company line"....he will either tell you or not.  Another club member, Steve Stein, was in on the conversation last night and gave Mike a good "ketchup" comment a few times.

Let me rephrase the vacuum comment.  Mike says he leaves more air (he said a percentage, although he didn't give me the exact number) in his tins than others do.

Mike likes to talk too much to have trade secrets anyway  :lol:

I'll probably never get a chance to talk to him, as I'm pretty far from any events that might occur...

...at the same time, I've also heard he's very no-bullpucky. I think you have to be like that to be a tobacco blender. Hence why I also would guess he has more a script for his own sanity dealing with the umpteenth repeated question over details--not so much a company line.

In any case, if I ever do meet him by chance, I'll be sure to wear my red shirt that has a huge Heinz ketchup label on it, but never mention a thing. :lol:

8)

 

[SpeedyPete]

McCranies also sell 5100 under their own label in bulk. They call it First Light.

 

[RDPipes]

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[scotties22]

:lol!:

 

[stapf]

I'm not into ketchup. I'm waiting for someone to come out with mustard or hot sauce.

 

[Northern Neil]

It was noted on another forum, discussing the same topic, that McCrannies Red Ribbon and Red Flake are actually single crop productions where McClelland 5100 is a blend of multiple redVA vintages to maintain consistency. So the Red Ribbon and Red Flake are similar to Christmas Cheer and 5100 is a more generic production.

 

[scotties22]

5100 and Ribbon/Flake are the same thing. The difference is that Ribbon/Flake are tinned from a specific crop year because that's when they (McCrannie's) need more and it's what Mike has on hand at the time. So in that regard I guess Ribbon/Flake is a bit like the Christmas Cheer. I'll have to ask Mike about blending the 5100...whether it is single year batches or if he blends multiple vintages. I can't see Mike hanging on to a vintage just to blend it as a straight Va bulk....but, I could be wrong. I'll see him in a few weeks and ask.

 

[Thomas Tkach]

5100 and Ribbon/Flake are the same thing.  The difference is that Ribbon/Flake are tinned from a specific crop year because that's when they (McCrannie's) need more and it's what Mike has on hand at the time. So in that regard I guess Ribbon/Flake is a bit like the Christmas Cheer.  I'll have to ask Mike about blending the 5100...whether it is single year batches or if he blends multiple vintages.  I can't see Mike hanging on to a vintage just to blend it as a straight Va bulk....but, I could be wrong.  I'll see him in a few weeks and ask.  

Did you ever ask?

 

[scotties22]

I didn't....I forgot The next meeting in on Thursday the 19th. If he's there I'll try to remember to ask.

 

[Thomas Tkach]

Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

 

[Kapnismologist]

Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

Dilettantes!

(btw - a great thread)

 

[monbla256]

Thanks! I was reminded of this thread by a post on another forum where a member said McCranie's Red Flake and 5100 have nothing in common.

They don't. Red Flake is a flake and 5100 RC is a ribbon cut. Now McCranie's Red Ribbon and McC's 5100 RC are basicaly one and the same :twisted: :twisted:

 

[DrumsAndBeer]

I have also read that Peretti's London Flake is McClelland bulk 2015. That would be a good one to know for sure, because I love London Flake but the price difference between LF and 2015, for 8 ounces, is about $9.00 bucks.