The Official Gawith & Hoggarth Thread

[Blackhorse]

Currently I've got the Dark Plug, Brown Twist Sliced, Sweet Rum Twist and Brown Bogie in...and of course Bob's Choco-licious Flake, a guilty pleasure to be sure. Also some old 1792 hanging around that has lost all it's initial aroma...it's now very mellow and quite a good smoke. I've tried some of the florals and not been able to stay with them...just too over the top and not what I look for re: flavor. I really enjoy the Sweet Twists (that's aren't really sweet, just maybe edge-less) and of course the line of Darks and Browns. I also quite like Revor Plug...made by G&H...dark, sweet, powerful, lovely.

We've all heard it, all seen it tossed about..re: the cost (said in a whining tone) and the bothersome effort of having to actually spend time, skill and effort prepping the stuff (more sniveling). Comments like, "I can't be bothered..." and "...too much fuss," etc. Hmmm. Without going into further detail re: the moral decay of those sad individuals characterized by the above, I'll just add..."screw 'em!" I, um...can't be bothered feeling sorry for 'em...too much fuss! lol If their lack of interest and or ability in doing the little that is required prevents them from enjoying the finest smoking experience possible (Stonehaven being the singular exception) in the modern world (IMNSHO) then all I can further add is that I feel sorry for their wives, girlfriends, etc. - if you get my drift. Just an opinion, of course.

 

[Roqsan]

I've tried so far: Bob's Choc, Best Brown, Rum Flake & Brown Unscented (along with lots of plugs and twists). For me the first three flakes all have a weird taste, which is presumably what some people are referring to as soap, but to me tastes more like germolene antiseptic cream (as someone else commented on tobacco reviews). I reckon that this strange taste is largely what has lead people to refer to a lakeland essence. My guess, though, is that the taste is actually something to do with the curing process of one of the tobaccos that G&H use in these blends and I can't detect anything that would correspond to a lakeland essence in GH brown unscented or in the SG flakes I've tried. Would be interested in what everyone else thinks - Which other lakeland blends have this taste? What is the source of this strange taste? Incidentally, I seem to remember something of the same taste when I tried Walnut Flake way back when.

 

[Natch]

One similar tobacco that Samual Gawith makes a much better version of than GH&Co. is the Chocolate Flake. I much prefer SG Mayors Chocolate Flake to GH Bob's Chocolate flake. But other than this one exception, I think, as Ken indicated a while back, that GH has it all over SG. Not that all SG blends are bad, in fact many are very good, but overall GH are better.

Natch

 

[Roqsan]

One similar tobacco that Samual Gawith makes a much better version of than GH&Co. is the Chocolate Flake. I much prefer SG Mayors Chocolate Flake to GH Bob's Chocolate flake. But other than this one exception, I think, as Ken indicated a while back, that GH has it all over SG. Not that all SG blends are bad, in fact many are very good, but overall GH are better.

Natch

This is all very well, but (leaving twists and plugs aside) what specific flakes do G&H do that are better than the SG equivalents? I've given up trying new G&H flakes for the moment, since most of the ones I've tried (i.e. best brown, bobs, rum) have that antiseptic taste. The only acceptable G&H flake I've found so far is brown unscented, but that doesn't compare well with SG BBF or Germain's flakes to my taste - it doesn't appear to taste of anything much at all and perhaps needs some aging.

 

[Blackhorse]

Roqson wrote:

"what specific flakes do G&H do that are better than the SG equivalents?"

It seems to me you're asking for an objective answer to an area that's totally subjective. What's "better" to one isn't necessarily so to another. Very handy case in point? Natch likes the SG Mayor's Chocolate Flake...while I much prefer the Bob's Choco Flake by G&H. It also seems that you're asking a question that 'by design' the makers, given their family history and the way the two companies have developed over time, have kind of settled for themselves. By this I mean...once makes the rope and the twist, the other makes the bogie...one makes this or that flake while the other makes the plug...etc. They're kind of 'agreed' to do similar but different items, even though very closely realted...but that's just my take on it.

Re: the Lakeland thing and the classic "soap" flavor...I don't think the billions (historically) comments re: the soap flavor are so much directed at the flakes you mentioned...but more at the classic Lakeland items - with Ennerdale being the chief target. Others would be (more or less) items such as the scented Bosun, Grasmere, Glengarry and Kendal Plug, Flakes, etc. and even their supposedly unscented partners.

I agree with your assessment of the Brown Flake being rather flavorless - I kind of see it that way as well. But that might be due to my having been on a jag of smoking very strong flakes recently and what may have once been a medium flavored flake now seems far less so.

So three thoughts -

1) If you're trying to set up some kind of side by side smoke-out event...you'll have to be satisfied with "sort of like" as opposed to something that's supposed to be the exact equivalent. If that's good enough I would suggest perhaps the following,,,just a few ideas:

St. James Flake and Lousiana Flake - although the LF is flavored with Cocoa.
Best Brown and Best Brown #2
Glengarry Flake and Cannon Plugs (at least they're both honeydew)

Also...what are you going to do about Warrior Plug? That's a G&H product with a nice slight Lakeland-ish essence.

But the REAL question of the day has to be...as you're a smoker of the Germain flakes it apprears...do you have access to thier "Dark Flake"? I would really like to see a side by side of the Dark Flake and Stonehaven! Now THAT would be interesting!

OK. OK. I'll shut up!

 

[raf66]

I can't get enough Bob's Chocolate Flake. It's my ABSOLUTE favorite tobacco. I think I must like that Lakeland charm a bit. What other G&H blends have that taste?

 

[Roqsan]

@Blackhorse

Well I'm not really looking for an objective answer just for other peoples opinions, since I'm too humble ale: to imagine that I have the whole story.

The situation WRT some G&H flakes is confusing as can be seen by checking the reviews on Tobaccoreviews.com. Best Brown 2 and Brown Unscented are actually two different blends, but my guess is that they are being confused in the reviews, particularly since the naming convention for these blends varies from site to site. IMOP Best Brown 2 has a strong antiseptic flavour that is quite overwhelming when bought in bulk and wears off to some extent as the flake is dried out. OTOH brown unscented does not...

I also prefer SG chocolate flake (in fact I really like this) to Bob's and again that's mainly because Bob's has that antiseptic taste again.

I like your theory about the two companies not stepping on each other's toes, but I'm not sure it's actually borne out by the facts: SG also make different twists, bogies and pigtails and, for instance, SG Brown no. 4 isn't really that different from G&H brown Irish twist.

I haven't tried Louisiana flake yet - I think it's quite a new product since I understand G&H never used to have any perique blends. St James flake is basically just FVF with some perique added, a good blend I think and I can't detect any odd flavourings.

Warrior plug is actually a P. J. Carroll blend originally. I think that when P. J. Carroll was taken over (by Imperial?) their Mick McQuaid brand was given to Orlik and Murray's got to make warrior plug. So if Warrior has a "lakeland essence" it wasn't in the original Irish blend and I personally can not taste it the G&H version (or in Revor plug, which has a similar history).

No, unfortunately I haven't been able to obtain dark flake anywhere in the UK nor Stonehaven. That's a pity, but I really like Germains Brown flake and full Latakia flake and maybe it's a just a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence :scratch:

 

[Natch]

what specific flakes do G&H do that are better than the SG equivalents?

[/quote]

My apologies for not expressing my opinion well, Roqsan, my post was meant to compare only two similarly named (and somewhat similarly blended in my eyes) Chocolate Flakes by the two companies and indicate that this is the exception to my general preferences, that of the SG over the G&H. Other than the G&H-Louisiana Flake and the SG St. James Flake, I don't see any other flakes that are that closely comparable between the two companies. But three of my top-ten tobaccos are other G&H flakes and none of the other SG flakes are in my top group, therefore I seem to have a preference for G&H flakes over SG flakes, even though they may not be compared on a one-on-one basis of similar blends.

Perhaps more of an apples & oranges comparison, but I apparently prefer one fruit over the other?

Natch

 

[chevy5759]

My Tad order arriving tomorrow includes Ken's G&H recommendations. My last Tad were SG offerings and I have found that I am enjoying the Lakeland toppings. I am looking forward to the G&H offerings tomorrow.

 

[Blackhorse]

So far as I know (hearsay only) Esoterica's Stonehaven is the USA distribtuion of Germain's Dark Flake. I've HEARD that the two are identical. If you ever snag some Dark Flake send me some and I'll send you some Stonehaven...we can have a 'ond crossing smokeoff!' lol

Just opened three new items...one of Warrior and one of Reavor and one of Germain's Brown Flake. The Warrior definetely has some very slight Lakelandesque notes...the Reavor REEKS of Latakia! Both smoke well. The Brown Flake is quite frankly...stellar! The second half of the bowl is "moaning good" tobacco!

 

[jj1015]

I've really been getting into these products lately -- they are top notch! I've yet to smoke one that I thought was poorly executed, even if I wouldn't want to smoke all of them on a regular basis.
So far, I like Kendal Flake and Coniston Cut Plug the best. Bob's Chocolate is also nice, as if Dark Flake. I've also found myself smoking a lot of Kendal Ky.
Personally, I like the "soapy" nature of these. I'm not usually an aromatic fan, but I really enjoy the floral/soapy/perfumey nature of the flavorings often used.

 

[Roqsan]

So far as I know (hearsay only) Esoterica's Stonehaven is the USA distribtuion of Germain's Dark Flake. I've HEARD that the two are identical. If you ever snag some Dark Flake send me some and I'll send you some Stonehaven...we can have a 'ond crossing smokeoff!' lol

Just opened three new items...one of Warrior and one of Reavor and one of Germain's Brown Flake. The Warrior definetely has some very slight Lakelandesque notes...the Reavor REEKS of Latakia! Both smoke well. The Brown Flake is quite frankly...stellar! The second half of the bowl is "moaning good" tobacco!

I put up another thread about JFG Dark Flake so as not to coopt the G&H thread. Although my impressions of Warrior and Revor are somewhat different to yours, we most certainly agree about JFG Brown Flake!

 

[Wet Dottle]

Lately, there's been a lot of thread necromancy in BOB . Just sayn'...

 

[Jack Straw]

I'd say, of the comparable SG and GH tobaccos I've tried, each company does some things better than the other.

Dark Flake and 1792/Bracken are just sort of different. I wouldn't say one is better than the other per se. I like Dark Flake both scented and un-, but also like 1792 and Bracken a lot. Dark Flake is like the grand daddy of tobaccos. The most tobaccoey tasting tobacco out there.

GH Rope is better than SG Rope, no contest.

SG St. James flake is better than GH Louisiana Flake, no contest.

I still have to try the kendal kentucky, conniston, ennerdale, bosun, and all their other 'regular' offerings.

 

[Blackhorse]

I noticed on one vendor's site that they had Brown Irish X, Brown Bogie and Brown Twist for sale. OK...I understand the difference between the Bogie and Twist as being size (diameter). Is there any difference other than size with the Brown Irish X? I assume it's slightly smaller in diameter than the Bogie?

Over on the SG side (I thin it was) there is XX and even XXX? Are all these designations ones of size? Is there any 'source' that lists all these things definitively?

Inquiring minds, etc.

 

[Jack Straw]

Earlier this week I received a generous sampler of GH tobaccos (and a few bonuses) from Natch. Thanks again brother.

Where have these been all my life? :shock:

I had been a fan of Dark Flake Scented and Brown Flake U/S in a big way, as well as the Brown Irish X, but had not tried anything else in their range besides St. James Flake which to me is good but not a fave.

I'm smoking my second bowl of Coniston Cut Plug right now. To me, this is like Irish Flake with a dollop of that GH richness. This tobacco is an ACE!

Bosun Cut Plug is out of this world too, so very earthy and full.

Best Brown #2, kind of similar to Brown Flake but I think I like BF a little bit better. Very good though. Worth keeping both around for variety.

No. 7 Broken Flake, Loved it!

Curly Cut Regular, very nice but I prefer the Brown Irish X.

What can I say, Ken was right all along. :lol:

One thing that's fun about trying all of the GH offerings, is that since a lot of them use the same constituent tobaccos in varying quantity, you really get to know them each individually and what they bring to the blend. Kind of like "variations on a theme."

Next up, chocolate flake comparison with SG.

 

[Skip48]

I like the Bob's enough that I added 2 pounds this week to the half pound I had.

Like most all I have tried and can't wait for my factory sealed one pound block of Samuel Gawith's Kendal Plug from the year 2000! Whoever knows Samuel Gawith knows their famous Kendal Plug.

Like FVF, Kendal Flake as well as all the others I have tried and even Firedance that some don't like.

Keep trying more of both and liking both, but I do like G&H Bob's better than SG Mayors.

Skip

 

[Blackhorse]

Skip - I'm frequently surprised at how much I like 'some' of the scented or semi-scented versions of both SG and G&H. Case in point this time is Firedance. Like all of these, the longer it sits, the more and more mild the flavoring becomes (sidebar: I've got some 7 y.o. 1772 that you can hardly tell was once flavored with Tonquin). Anyway, a friend in Anchorage, AK sent me an opened tin of the Firedance that was a year or two old...each flake COVERED with fairy dust and the Blackberry-Vanilla Brandy flavor and aroma were mild...and simply delicious! Unlike many I didn't start out smoking aromatic blends...one of the first blends I remember was Bob's Choco-licious Flake. So, aromatics have never impressed me. Trying to COVER the aroma of the tobacco just tells me the tobacco most likely wasn't all that good. But when a blend is designed with a casing or sauce prep to enhance or play harmony to the base tobacco's flavor, etc. it can be real art. And Firedance, which is potent with flavor, does just that.


GO DUCKS!

 

[Skip48]

Blackhorses with my firs try of Firedance my thought were just this...boy with a little time I bet then stuff is very good. Not that is was not good right new out of the tin as I thought it was. I am hoping the tins I have put back tell the full story this year or next. I still have the open tin in a jar and smoke it from time to time. I also fully expect that I add more of it to my stash when I get the chance.

I love the Bob's Chock, and did so from the first bowl. I found though that each cowl since has med me like it even more to the point I already had 1/2 pound, I added 2 more pounds this last week, LOL! I also find it very easy on the tongue which sometimes is important for me anyway.

I guess my largest bulk tobaccos I have decided on to hang around a while is this and 2015 which I also really like and at $39 a pound it's hard for me not to have plenty for regular pipe loads. I think may even add more to both later. One of the best parts about these for me is they are pretty darn good right out of the tin new.

Skip

 

[Bugsahearn]

Anyone smoked some of the rarer GH blends like Sliced Cinnamon Twist, Cherry Cream Flake, Dark Plug Rose, Kendal Aniseed Black Pigtail, Coffee Pigtail, and my favorite sounding Brown Irish Twist Licorice Plum!! Wow! I think I could keep myself occupied forever if I lived in Kendal.