The Price of Artisan Pipes

[sisyphus]

same reason someone might want an amber, horn or briar stem, tradition, the novelty, looks

 

[Rad Davis]

Thank you.

I'm familiar with it as a long-since superceded plastic formulation.

What I don't get is why anybody'd go back to using it again ? For one thing, it was brittle. Which, for stuff like radio knobs, didn't matter.

:face:

It's because all Bakelite is antique and therefore very cool.

Rad

 

[sisyphus]

In fact, if I had a steady stock of black bakelite, I'd prefer using it to vulcanite because I find it to be far easier to work and finish. -J. Alan

Bakelite is fairly hard compared to the hardened rubbers, but softer than Lucite. -S. Downie

There's an answer right there. If it's softer than acrylic that's bonus enough, although I really don't see why anyone would use anything but vulcanite except for the maintenance issues putting some smokers off.

 

[Sasquatch]

I actually think acrylic offers a better tasting pipe. Rubber stems influence the taste of a pipe in any number of ways (from the sulphur component of the oxidation process, for example). I think even a clean and waxed rubber stem has an influence (carnauba has a taste too come to think of it) whereas acrylic puts no flavors at all in the smoke or on one's tongue. I think the rubbery tastes are things that pipe smokers get used to and forget about. It's no big deal (and I'm now fully prepared to be told by 50 people that THEY have rubber stems and THEY have never tasted anything), but to me a clean acrylic stemmed pipe smokes purer than a clean rubber stemmed pipe, particularly if there's wear on the rubber.

 

[sisyphus]

the mouth feel of acrylic is awful compared to vulcanite

 

[Sasquatch]

Yes.

 

[Anonymous]

acrylic offers a better tasting pipe.

THIS.

Period.

First trip around the block in a pipe with a new-to-me lucite stem moment of illumination :

Hey -- my tobacco doesn't taste like Stem !!!!!

First day of the rest of my life there.

:face:
HAND SMOKER

 

[Harlock999]

to me a clean acrylic stemmed pipe smokes purer than a clean rubber stemmed pipe, particularly if there's wear on the rubber.

Exactly!

 

[Anonymous]

Pull up a chair & light a pipe, guys. The Yakster's about to hold forth with some wisdom here.

Comfy ? OK then. Here we go.

I did my best to put a bug in Marty Pulvers' ear a few days ago, suggesting that if he were casting around for some topic to expound on at his home page and coming up short for an interesting one, a LOT of people would welcome a series by him on what, exactly, goes into the way pipes (new and estate both) are valued. Not by the lunatic fringe at Flea Bay, but by the people like him who have been immersed in the pipe market for 30 years and know -- from long experience -- what they're talking about.

He seemed pretty receptive to the idea, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

In the mean time, I'm going to entertain you with a blazing insight into the matter of why guys like certain pipes enough to spend "real money" to acquire them that clarifies everything wonderfully. Not what the dynamic appears to be when considered in marketing terms, where every term is an abstraction standing in for a reality, but what their root motivation is.

I keep pointing out that

Pipes are female.

and you guys either laugh or roll your eyes because you think I'm being an ****** again.

But I assure you, solemnly, that I speak truth here, and nothing but.

Hungry male baboons presented with a choice between either pulling lever "A" for dinner or lever "B" to watch a video of female baboon butts choose to go hungry. Consistently.

Sex sells. If you don't think that's what's driving "buying decisions" in a wide range of applications, buy a clue from Vanna. She knows. Millions of women watched that show. Same basic deal as Chick Flicks ; no women in the movie, no female audience appeal. That's why they put those bubblebrained "reporters" asking assinine questions of the coaches on the sidelines along with the cheerleaders that everybody figures are there for the guys. They draw female viewers.

It all reduces to mass contained and expressed by curved surfaces.. The rest is details.

There has been a long series of multi-millionaire collectors of classic-era Italian violins who can't play a note on one to save their lives. What do you think the root appeal involved is ?

Rather than download a bunch of pictures, check these and you tell me.

Antonio Stradivari :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radioassets/photos/2007/6/4/21178_2.jpg

Giuseppi Guarneri del Gesu :
http://www.simplyviolin.com/page2/page10/files/Guarnerius%20Guarneri%20del%20gesu%20front.jpg

Matthias Gofriiller :
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/goffriller-violin-f-hole-corner-sam-hymas.jpg

Now switch obsessions for a minute and go to classic-era American Longrifles -- another obsessive high-roller collector fascination. Why do you think they designed and made them to be so awe-inspiringly beautiful that people who can afford to drop six-figure sums for them and count themselves lucky to get them ?

Here's a J.P. Beck from Lebanon County (later 18th Century). Bear in mind that the women there are of Saxon descent -- stocky in build, but extremely shapely as far as curves go :

http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/327/images/lrg/46877x8.jpg

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=n1w76d&s=5

That's mass contained and beautifully defined by the curves that express it.

Here, by contrast, is a William Defibaugh (ca. 1850) from Bedford County, where there was no lack of slender, wiry girls of Scotch-Irish descent :

http://www.cowansauctions.com/itemImages/mm1806.jpg

It worked then, and it still works today. And that's the what, how and why of it.

Shapely butts have a profound effect on hominids. They're wired that way. And artisans with a clue utilise that to advantage.

Using old-brain sexual response programming to sell fine arts is the most direct route to bypass operant conditioning ("the pipe's worth $150 ; the white spot adds $450 of value to it) and get to potential customers "where they live."

OK. Here's the $64,000 question : Why is it that it's so freaking hard to find nice, classic shapes (billiards, apples, princes, &c.) and why do they disappear in a heartbeat when they surface (?) while, at the same time there are pages and pages of the same old same old "contemporary" shapes being made almost by post-hypnotic suggestion sitting there on offer for months on end, gathering dust (which the photographs of them, not being in real time, fortunately don't show) ?

However remote the connexion, and mitigated by after-the-fact considerations, the root of the appeal is -- for the first time here on BoB -- articulated bluntly.

You're welcome. 8)

:face:

 

[Sasquatch]

Classic shapes are very, very easy to make ugly.

It's far harder to cut a really good billiard than a mediocre "Danish inspired" lump of an acorn. Put a Mammoth-Ivory ring on the lump and it's a high-grade?


There's some nice stuff being cut right now in both "schools" but there's also a lot of pretty poor shaping going on and being shined up and sold as high-grade stuff. Or rather, offered as high grade stuff. :roll:

If you miss a single aspect of the cut on a billiard (or any of the Dunhill-type English shapes - tight, rigid, spare) you get a totally amateur looking pipe. Can't hide it where you can on a more.... abstract shape.


This is not to say that the best of the more abstract shapes aren't just as difficult (or more difficult), but there are only a few guys cutting such pipes right now. The real "high grades" whatever that term is worth.

 

[Kyle Weiss]

This chair is too comfy to leave, now.

Keep going guys, good reading.

 

[Ocelot55]

Classic shapes are very, very easy to make ugly.

It's far harder to cut a really good billiard than a mediocre "Danish inspired" lump of an acorn. Put a Mammoth-Ivory ring on the lump and it's a high-grade?


There's some nice stuff being cut right now in both "schools" but there's also a lot of pretty poor shaping going on and being shined up and sold as high-grade stuff. Or rather, offered as high grade stuff. :roll:

If you miss a single aspect of the cut on a billiard (or any of the Dunhill-type English shapes - tight, rigid, spare) you get a totally amateur looking pipe. Can't hide it where you can on a more.... abstract shape.


This is not to say that the best of the more abstract shapes aren't just as difficult (or more difficult), but there are only a few guys cutting such pipes right now. The real "high grades" whatever that term is worth.

My sentiments exactly. That's one reason why most of my pipes are as classic as I can make them. There really aren't too many artisans turning out archetypal English shapes that are well cut and beautifully proportioned. Several every now and then. But it also seems to me that the market, or at least the high grade market, is craving exotic shapes and exotic materials. I could be wrong, but that is my perception.

 

[Anonymous]

AHA ! :cheers:

Having temporarily run out of things to say about the world and its various moving parts, I will take the advice of one of my occasional correspondents and write about pipes. What the hell...the worst that can happen is that I'm wrong...again.

One of the themes he would like me to discuss is pipe values, relative and comparative prices and reasons people use for making their choices.

These are issues I have addressed in the past and are they are worth looking at again, and again, I suppose.

First of all, why is one pipe 'better' than another? Maybe not a good question. Maybe there is no such thing as better...only better for you, or for me.

Let me use an analogy. The highway closest to my house is 101, which runs the length of Calif., and in the ultra-congested corridor between San Jose and San Francisco (and extending north to Santa Rosa, actually) provides little room in which to let the car 'air it out.' In this environment, what is the better car, a Ferrari or a Mini Cooper? One has a tremendously powerful engine plus a fancy and expensive interior and uncommon design elements while the other is small, particularly maneuverable, is good on gas, and can be parked in the small spaces that might be spotted in a city. To me, the qualities that are most desirable are in the Mini, making it about $100,000 less expensive and also 'better.'

So, getting back to our favorite topic, if the pipe you most enjoy is a traditionally shaped, nicely textured sandblast in a medium size, with a thin & narrow vulcanite stem, how is an ultra-expensive Lars Ivarsson with non-traditional shaping a better pipe for you?

Wouldn't you prefer to smoke, say, a used, but well maintained older Dunhill Shell for about $150 over a $7,000 Ivarsson? Even if you could easily afford that Ivarsson? Wouldn't you feel a lot better trying to park your Mini on the mean streets of San Francisco than you would leaving your Ferrari unparked and unattended?

Now, if you have trained yourself to need that illusion of exclusivity, without which you will feel bereft of meaning, that expensive car and/or pipe should be yours.

Nor am I saying that the Ivarsson, or other expensive pipesare not better. If you derive satisfaction from knowing that a lot of hand sanding went into the making of your pipe, and that the carving is very difficult to accomplish, and the little details attended to in the making are something you would notice and miss if they were not there, then that pipe is truly better for you. It has what you want, and you do not mind paying for them and should not apologize for wanting them.

But, it is silly to not care about those cost-adding extras and yet feel you must have, and pay, for them just because you have read that this brand is 'better.' Again, what is better is what is better for you. Having the characteristics you want in a pipe (a thin vulcanite stem, an uncoated bowl, a straight shank, a light weight...whatever it is that satisfies you) is what makes it better...not a high price and a lot of meaningless, to you, workmanship.

Try to pay for what you want, and avoid paying for what you don't want.

The car analogy is good here, too; ever notice how hard it is to get just the package you want from a car dealer? You want manual transmission, but that's only available if you get the sunroof, which you don't want. Maddening. But it's also good. It may not only keep you from collecting cars, but it will force you to focus on just a few pipes and help you quickly eliminate those many, many good looking pipes you ultimately don't really want.

That is lesson one of an unspecified number. We will continue with "better" on our next posting.

http://www.pulversbriar.com/

:face:

 

[Anonymous]

THANK YOU, Marty ! 8)

:face:
AND THE GANG

 

[Harlock999]

Yak is on to something interesting here...
I'd like to hear more about the relationship between shapely female posteriors and pipes.
And I'm not joking around either.
Something in his earlier post reminded me of a conversation my girlfriend and I recently had on the topic of why men like looking at women's butts, especially nice round ones. I said that while I fully understand that I have little in common with 90% of the women whose rears I've admired, I still like looking.

 

[Anonymous]

It is not without significance that a heart :heart: looks like a bum.

Or that the return line of a many bent pipes replicates one half of one.

It's an archetype that's at the root of the appeal.

It's not a simple, stupid correlation that can be applied mechanically.

It's more like, when you're fascinated by the play of curves in a pipe, the way they interact with each other and add up to a whole greater than the sum of the individual parts, that's the model (principle) that's animating it. And you.

:face:

 

[Anonymous]

Effective Public Relations certainly factors into it.

You made other comments about the importance of the relationship between the pipemaker and customer. As a buyer I couldn't agree more. Getting to know the pipemaker and learning something more about the maker of your pipe or the inspiration behind it is a huge value-add. It makes the pipe more personal and prized when there is some story or personal connection behind it. This is something many pipemakers do very well and I can't think of another industry where you can build this kind of relationship with someone you consider to be among the very best in the world at what they do. And, perhaps because nobody makes millions in this industry, pipemakers tend to be really approachable, generous people.

Picture this. You meet someone new. "What do you do?" she asks.

"I'm an architect," you say.

"Oh, really?" she answers. "Have you designed any buildings I've seen?"

"Possibly," you reply. "We did the new student center at the university..."

"Oh wow," she says. "That's a beautiful building..."

Without trying -- without blowing your own horn -- you've made a great impression.

Now picture this. You meet someone new. "What do you do?" he asks.

"I'm a passionate, innovative, dynamic provider of architectural services with a collaborative approach to creating and delivering outstanding world-class client and user experiences."

All righty then.

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130117141235-20017018-stop-using-these-16-terms-to-describe-yourself

:face:

 

[Kyle Weiss]

It is not without significance that a heart :heart: looks like a bum.

Or that the return line of a many bent pipes replicates one half of one.

It's an archetype that's at the root of the appeal.

It's not a simple, stupid correlation that can be applied mechanically.

It's more like, when you're fascinated by the play of curves in a pipe, the way they interact with each other and add up to a whole greater than the sum of the individual parts, that's the model (principle) that's animating it. And you.

:face:

I'd never thought of it that way...charming, actually. So, is there a correlation between guys that like full-bent, straight pipes or even giant pipes? :lol:

Me? I'll stick with my skinny/smaller subtle curves 1/8 bends. Why this makes sense on that scale, I have no idea. Or, maybe I do.

8)

 

[Anonymous]

I think that guys who start out figuring bigger is better tend to learn the error involved from experience and end up with historically normal sized pipes. Especially of they're (broken-)flake smokers.

Enough of a good thing is . . . enough.

re. the other, FWIW, I see it as a women thing.

Men look at women. Obsessively.

Women look at other women. Compulsively.

Whether it's keeping track of the competition, or the femme-group thing (do they ever go shopping alone ?), it always boils down to women. Put female faces / voices in anything (like "News" broadcasts) and women will watch it.

It's one of those things in life where ideology swings at reality and misses.

It just only works the way it works. And pipe proportions, similar curves &c. &c. &c. mirroring female archetypes, IMO, is one example.

:face:

:face:
A LITTLE SCHIZY TODAY

 

[Slide]

I think that guys who start out figuring bigger is better tend to learn the error involved from experience and end up with historically normal sized pipes. Especially of they're (broken-)flake smokers.

Enough of a good thing is . . . enough.


:face:

:face:
A LITTLE SCHIZY TODAY

^ This - my larger danish pipes see virtually no use. Not because I don't like them, but because they don't fit my tobacco choices.