VINTAGE PIPE VALUES

[RDPipes]

I wonder how many of you clicked on the post hoping to see values given. If I were a betting man I'd have to say at least half of ya and the other half saying to themselves Oh No! he's not going to give it away.
I've been to many pipe forums and such and have NEVER seen or heard anyone talk about vintage or rare pipe values and it appears to me that many who know don't want you to know. Yes I know, you can go on eBay and with the proper search you can find want certain pipes and all collectibles are going for but, the only problem is that eBay is not always consistent. Why, because I've seen two nimrods going at it over a pipe and pay more then 3 are worth. I have seen books on the subject but few and far between and most are so out of date there worthless anyway.
I would like to think I know my values fairly well but, there's always that pipe that I question and don't have a good answer to. Most of the time, and I know many are already saying to themselves, it's worth what your willing to pay, and that's what I go by. But, not being wealthy or even well off as I know many of you are in comparison to me, I can't even afford what I'd be willing to pay so I must draw a line as to how much I can pay. Loving pipes as I do I find this very hard most of the time. Now getting back to values, not being of money I can see not wanting anyone else or anymore to know the values of vintage pipes but, also one who doesn't want to pay more then a pipe is actually worth is another woe. The ole "Stuck between a rock and a hard place". What are your views on this subject and do you have any tips that aren't to revealing to give. Or are you on the Hush hush side of the fence. What's your opinion? :scratch:

 

[Dutch]

This is the side of the fence that I am on, and it's about time for me to buy another pipe rack!

 

[RDPipes]

Looks to me you haven't decided which side is greener yet.
Pipe rack! Now that's another subject but, I'll let that go for another day.

 

[Rob_In_MO]

Unfortunately there's no easy answer to that question.
We all understand market value, item rarity, as well as the laws of supply and demand.

But for me it's more inline with what the pipe is worth to me, not what an item goes for during an Ebay bidding war. I agree that Ebay can be used as a general guide, but some of those people are way the hell off IMHO.

Roughly 10 years ago I was an Ebay Power Seller, so I've been on both sides of that fence. Sometimes I got jipped, other times I made out like a bandit. In the end, I did pretty well at it - until Ebay and Paypal starting raising their fees every 3-6 months.

For instance: I would love to have a vintage MM Bulldog Cob. I would naturally pay more for a decent specimen that a new Cob would cost, but I wouldn't go too crazy because at the end of the day it's still a MM Cob - new or not.




If you really want to know what an Estate Pipe is worth - ask Monbla. He had already been smoking for 20-years when most of them were made. :mrgreen:

 

[monbla256]

I go by what I recall the price was brand new !! I can recall when you could buy a Shell Dunhill for less than $90.00 Brand new :cheers:
So i try and pay around the original price it was back when it was new ! But then. I have over 80 pipes and am not really in the market for another ( but if things were all in MY favor, I wouldn't turn down one )

 

[Nathan_58]

Real simple. I say I'm looking for a bargain. My wife says I'm looking for a steal! I have paid retail for a few pipes, mostly from shops that I frequent (support your local business). I've gotten a couple of great bargains out of e-bay, but those are sort of rare because it is a matter of beating someone to the punch in the last 15 seconds. My favorite thing is antique shopping. I go with my wife and a friend, hitting up small towns all over east Texas. Plus I travel for work so I will do the same at my different destinations. I've come across some real nice pipes at great prices. I've also come across a lot of real nice pipes at outrageous prices!

You mentioned pipe racks, I have a variety of free standing ones (all of which I got at antique stores at good prices), but I have two wall mount curio cabinets that I use for display. One is older, about 16x20, swiped it from my wife, put some hobby foam board covered with colorful bandanas in it and pinched the foam to form pipe holders. Has 14 pipes in it. Second one is bigger, 30x24, got it at a garage sale for $20. 3 glass shelves and it will hold stand-alone upright pipe holders on each shelf. Right now I've got about 16 pipes displayed in that (with other stuff).

I've got around 40 pipes total. My point is you don't have to be rich, or well off. You just have to be patient, percipient and know what you want, not just what is in front of you. I'm just praying for the day I find a $20 Dunhill in an antique store shelf!!!

 

[RDPipes]

I understand both your point of views Rob and Monbla and I adhere to both when possible. But, when was the last time you seen a Dunny go for around $90. Of course I realize some of the Sellers try to retire on one pipe sale but again a Dunny will be bid up to well over $100 99.9% of the time, thank God they most of them don't appeal to me. (miniature golf clubs with a hole in'em).
And Monbla, I have over 200 hundred pipes and I don't see a end in sight to my collection. I have curbed a bit just collecting mainly 3 categories but, it seems I have to buy, steal or make a couple of pipe racks every other month.
Back on subject, I've collected just about everything you can collect and that's not an exaggeration. I still collect antique & vintage electric fans from the early 19th and 20th centuries and there is no secret about values between collectors on forums or face to face or for that fact any collectables, collectors share their thoughts, wants and values. Not all of us agree one values but for the most part there ball park. Some may want to keep it a secret but, it's a laugh at best when they try.The only thing I've seen in recent is fan restorers keeping secrets on how to, which I think is ridiculous. You can give a man the tools to do it but, he has to have the skill to use them. Needless to say my pipe collecting has over taken the fans, trains, electrical items, beers etc, etc. that I use to collect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for values, just want to see who will admit it is kept behind closed doors and if I'm right about why.
Judas Priest! I'm long winded tonite. Do I hear an Amen?

 

[RDPipes]

So Nathan, your the reason I cant find a dadburn pipe or rack around here.

 

[shootist51]

Back in the early 70's I bought my first Charatan 284 and fell in love with that pipe. Shortly thereafter, Dunhill bought out Charatan and ruined them, that's why I will never own a Dunhill.

That first 284 cost me $35 and in the following years, pre internet, I accummulated a few more, all from the Lane era, all new, all $35 to $60, depending on the grade.

After the advent of the internet, E-bay, etal. I picked up a few more, all well preserved but used.I did pick one up, neversmoked, in the box, which was the most expensive pipe I ever bought @$130.

Now, having said all that, even the $35 pipe was a hell of a price to pay for something to burn weeds in, but given that I'm still smoking that pipe 40 years later it ends up costing about 88 cents a year...not a bad deal.

I now have all the pipes I want, but when shopping for pipes, I always researched what the pipe went for new and until that one 284, swore I would never pay $100 for a pipe...go figure.

we are all restricted by something, be it budget, wife, personal predjudices, whatever, but if a person is a collector and just needs that one piece to complete the collection that scale of value can slide quite a bit. In a case like that...the marketplace sets the price.

If your a smoker, rather than a collector, this is not so much the case.

I don't think there will ever be a "guide" on vintage pipe prices just because they are purchased for a variety of reasons. The collector is trying to achieve a goal, the smoker is looking for a good smoker and everything in between.

 

[Anonymous]

There are too many markets for your question to be answerable. And too many inexperienced or uncritical people buying stuff.

Markets : the people we've all seen (and I despise) on flea bay (& elsewhere) whose fixed prices (reserves) are 150% of the price an informed buyer would pay an informed seller make one market : rich people who either don't care or don't know any better. Who always have to get the word "Dunhill" into every shill for a Parker and to whom every pipe is "award winning, " "rare" and the like. May their stems oxidise green every day.

Inexperience : "Worth" to whom ? To somebody who figures a shiny pipe must be "in great condition" although the nomenclature and button's been buffed nearly off by some pipe vandal ? Who figure that a production-grade pipe (say, a Tradition) by a big outfit like Comoy must have scarcity value & be desirable because the few top shelf pipes it produced are/do ? Or, conversely, that a BBB Own Make Virgin in spot condition isn't one of the actual Britwood All-Stars, on a par with the best work Dunhill or Sasieni ever turned out, because nobody ever told them it was ?

Follow Marty Pulvers and take notes. In a couple of years you'll have your feet on the ground.

:face:

 

[Rad Davis]

To answer your question, I don't believe vintage pipe values are "kept behind closed doors". It would be to no one's benefit to do so.

Rad

 

[RDPipes]

Shootist, you may very well be right as far as that goes and I agree.
What I'm asking is simple, do you or others have knowledge of values that you or they keep to themselves to prevail a better purchase. If so, I understand this and I myself would not tell a layman/ non-collector the value of a pipe. But within the forum of collectors I see no need to do this and that is my point.

 

[RDPipes]

To answer your question, I don't believe vintage pipe values are "kept behind closed doors". It would be to no one's benefit to do so.

Rad

Thank you Rad

 

[Anonymous]

I raved about how great high-grade Pre-Republican Peterson standard pipes were, and how cheap they were, 'til they stopped being cheap.

Then I let it slip that Tinder Box Veronas were Mauro Armellini's initial US market penetration and they stopped going for $8 -- $12. In fact, they stopped appearing at all, for the most part.

(They both need new stems).

Yeah. Like I'm going to keep raving about great stuff that's criminally undervalued so you guys can jump on the bandwagon. :twisted:

:face:

:cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat: :cat:

 

[SpeedyPete]

The price I'm willing to pay for an estate depends on how eager I am to own the pipe.

I've never paid more than $100 for any pipe. But, I'm looking for a Sasieni Slendaline and if I should find one, I'm willing to go as high as $200. I've paid $35 or maybe even $38 (can't remember) for my MM bulldog because I wanted it dearly.

So, I'm of an opinion that there is no real way to establish the "value" of an estate pipe. It depends on how much a buyer is prepared to pay to satisfy his "hunger" for a specific pipe.

 

[Zeno Marx]

What I'm asking is simple, do you or others have knowledge of values that you or they keep to themselves to prevail a better purchase.

To answer honestly and without bullshit, YES.

But within the forum of collectors I see no need to do this and that is my point.

I disagree. These type forums are very powerful movers of information and ultimately incite trends. I'm not going to reveal my favorite fishing spots anywhere publicly, for I have no desire to muddy my own pool. It's common to the point of being predictable that if you bring attention to a maker, shape, era, or any other praised detail on a message board that you will surely create competition for yourself. It's unfortunate. It's a type of censor that doesn't serve conversation and discussion. It can even be perceived as unfriendly to gag thyself such. Call me a jerk if you feel it justified, but I don't see the reward in drawing attention; likely costing myself money, consumer heartache, and frustration. It cuts both ways, though. There have been plenty of times I wanted to tap the greater knowledge for information, clarification, and for fun experiences about certain pipes (because I do enjoy talking pipes), but I haven't done so because of all the reasoning above. So, I've intentionally remained ignorant and curious to prevent myself from more competition once I have obtained the desired information or details.

EDIT: I'd like to add something. This secretive behavior isn't all that unusual. I've collected records since childhood. I've dabbled in pocket watches and a few other hoarding activities. While it is somewhat unique to keep value on the hush-hush, holding information has always been part of the game. Record collectors freely talk abut value, but they hold onto favorite stores, new spots with potential, what days stores put out new arrivals, and other privileged information.

 

[rothnh]

Entertaining post, thanks!

The "sordid truth" -- where the cat pooped in the buckwheat -- is basically what Zeno posted here.

Sure, there are people (Marty was mentioned earlier in this thread) that have actually forgotten more about pipes than most of us will ever know. A lot of time and effort went into acquiring such knowledge though and theymay choose to share some of it, or they may not.

With a lot of time and effort, anyone can dig up just about anything on many if not most pipes, even some more obscure and/or rare ones. Many I'm a masochist, but researching stuff like that is an essential part of the things I like about our hobby. I'm old school I guess -- can't understand this want it now mentality of some younger folks -- because the harder I work for something, the more I appreciate it -- I enjoy the process.

One example is finding what I call a person's "Holy Grail" pipe -- e.g., a Dunhill "birth year" pipe. It may take forever to find that ONE pipe in the ONE shape in the RIGHT condition at the RIGHT price (which is what the person looking for it is willing to pay).

Doesn't matter. It's the journey, not the destination anyway.

 

[Rad Davis]

To answer your question, I don't believe vintage pipe values are "kept behind closed doors". It would be to no one's benefit to do so.

Rad

I should clarify a bit, I guess. I was speaking to the circumstances among collectors. Most all collectors know the values of the pipes they collect, and so do the sellers to the collector market.

The odd find in an antique store of a highly collectable pipe at a ridiculously low price is a different animal. There you have a person with no knowledge of pipes at all trying to sell something he knows nothing about. These are opportunities. :twisted:

Rad

 

[riff raff]

I clicked on the thread thinking someone would be asking what estate "brands" would be a good value....

I disagree that ebay doesnt show a consistent price point. If you watch enough auctions on a brand and/or shape, a pattern starts to emerge. Sure, there are anomalies. But I know a decent GBD #9438 in smooth finish will bring between $150 and $200. Any less is a bargain that I missed out on. I watch about 30-40 auctions per week, for over a year now.

 

[Zeno Marx]

I disagree that ebay doesnt show a consistent price point. If you watch enough auctions on a brand and/or shape, a pattern starts to emerge. Sure, there are anomalies. But I know a decent GBD #9438 in smooth finish will bring between $150 and $200. Any less is a bargain that I missed out on. I watch about 30-40 auctions per week, for over a year now.

Yep, and anyone who thinks differently isn't in the here and now or is in denial. I'm sure there are also those anomaly collector/sellers who only turn on the computer to check email, but for the greatest majority, even those who sell on personal websites and never sell on eBay are very likely referencing eBay and using those numbers to arrive at their own pricing.

As much as we can hate eBay for this or that, it represents the most accurate and adjusting market we have. The most sellers. The most buyers. The greatest number of lookers and market traffic coming in and out of the market. International and not merely representative of regional pockets.