Where does the "taste" come from?

[Musicus]

I'm reading in "The Pipe" (a book by Georges Herment) that the taste of the pipe rises from the bowl, rather than the smoke that passes through the stem. Seems illogical. Anybody have any idea what this means?

 

[Singed]

Nope. I agree with you, counter-intuitive.

 

[Bill (w/eoPd)]

Considering the significance of olfaction in taste perception, it seems the author is contending that the observable flavor is actually derived from the aroma(s) of the smoke emanating out of the bowl, rather than from any smoke being drawn into the mouth via the stem.

 

[Singed]

Considering it was originally written in french before 1952, I think there is a greater likelihood of translating errors than anything else. Originally published as Traite de la Pipe.

 

[Musicus]

Yes that's my interpretation of what he is saying. I guess I could test his theory by holding my nose while smoking and see if I taste anything. Hmm.

 

[Swede]

I know that for me, the most taste comes from a gentle retrohale, usually as part of the "breathe" way of smoking.

 

[daveinlax]

Neill Roan did an interesting paper and presentation on the thermodynamics of pipe smoking years ago. I took it that the taste comes from water vapor created a couple layers below the burning tobacco.

 

[Musicus]

I know that for me, the most taste comes from a gentle retrohale, usually as part of the "breathe" way of smoking.

I;ve not learned the retrohale yet, but I have applied the breathe technique as mentioned by Muttonchop Piper on YT.

 

[Swede]

I;ve not learned the retrohale yet, but I have applied the breathe technique as mentioned by Muttonchop Piper on YT.

That's great, and I learned it from his videos. Toward the end of my puffs, I just slowly blow out through my nose.

 

[Musicus]

That's great, and I learned it from his videos. Toward the end of my puffs, I just slowly blow out through my nose.

I use his breath technique intermittently, with pulling the pipe away from my mouth and just breathing normally. I find I cannot do the breath technique without a break.

 

[Forrest]

Singed is on to the overwhelmingly likely explanation for the incredulity of the "rise from the bowl" hypothesis, namely mistranslation; further, the fact that all flavor appreciation is so fully enhanced by the practice of retro-hale is what lends credence to the likely reason behind said mistranslation.

In other words, the book misleads because retro-hale is a practice that one who does not inhale smoke must learn of, and then practice, in order to teach themself how to get that flavor enhancement through retro-nasal olfaction.

Boiled down further, add more smelling to your smoking to get more flavor.

Here’s how:

First, when I first heard of the practice as a cigar smoker, I then spent considerable time researching what it was; and then, because it was so poorly described, considerably more time practicing it in order to gain understanding of it. I wanted to learn the practice those years back because I wanted to learn how to get the nuance flavors from cigars that I would read of in reviews of cigars. It works. You can do it. I’ve learned how to teach it more readily. Keep reading.

After I learned it, then I realized this is how wine reviewers could get flavor nuances that I thought I couldn’t, too --as well as whiskeys and whiskies. Hell, gourmet foods, too. And even tasting one gourmet butter compared to another. (I’ll save you the trouble; there are butters better than Kerry Gold, but they’re just a little better --for a lot more money. Buy Kerry Gold --unless you can get for just a little more money: Somerdale English or Le Conquerant French or Isigny Saint Mére French or Lewis Road from New Zealand.)

Bottom line: retro-haling is the key to super-tasting.

So, what the hell IS retro-haling? It’s not the same thing as “breath smoking.”*

The article below is the best I’ve found on the practice.

But before you read it, I’ve learned to teach the practice in this quick, easy way:

Get a mouthful of smoke and then whisper “how oooommmm.”

That’s it.

That will put a little of the smoke up into the back of your throat and the bottom of your nasal passage without forcing it up into your sinuses. That’s where you can taste those nuance flavor differences --which means you get more flavor.

*In order to get a nice mouthful of smoke, you may need a few draws from your pipe while you close the back of your mouth with the back of your tongue in the back of your throat while you breathe through your nose for a few breaths. That’s “breath smoking.” A larger mouthful of creamy smoke will help you learn to retro-hale, howooooommmmm, without irritating your sinus cavities by fully exhaling through your nose.

Here’s that delightfully well-said article on retro-haling:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokin...le-technique-for-advanced-flavor-appreciation

And here’s another beauty on breath smoking:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokin...moking-flavor-and-comfort-with-breath-smoking

Enjoy practicing. I invite questions.

Happy piping,
Forrest

 

[Musicus]

Wow, Forrest, thank you for taking the time to comment on this! I'm gonna have a look at this. Thanks again.

 

[Forrest]

Wow, Forrest, thank you for taking the time to comment on this! I'm gonna have a look at this. Thanks again.

 

[Swede]

Singed is on to the overwhelmingly likely explanation for the incredulity of the "rise from the bowl" hypothesis, namely mistranslation; further, the fact that all flavor appreciation is so fully enhanced by the practice of retro-hale is what lends credence to the likely reason behind said mistranslation.

In other words, the book misleads because retro-hale is a practice that one who does not inhale smoke must learn of, and then practice, in order to teach themself how to get that flavor enhancement through retro-nasal olfaction.

Boiled down further, add more smelling to your smoking to get more flavor.

Here’s how:

First, when I first heard of the practice as a cigar smoker, I then spent considerable time researching what it was; and then, because it was so poorly described, considerably more time practicing it in order to gain understanding of it. I wanted to learn the practice those years back because I wanted to learn how to get the nuance flavors from cigars that I would read of in reviews of cigars. It works. You can do it. I’ve learned how to teach it more readily. Keep reading.

After I learned it, then I realized this is how wine reviewers could get flavor nuances that I thought I couldn’t, too --as well as whiskeys and whiskies. Hell, gourmet foods, too. And even tasting one gourmet butter compared to another. (I’ll save you the trouble; there are butters better than Kerry Gold, but they’re just a little better --for a lot more money. Buy Kerry Gold --unless you can get for just a little more money: Somerdale English or Le Conquerant French or Isigny Saint Mére French or Lewis Road from New Zealand.)

Bottom line: retro-haling is the key to super-tasting.

So, what the hell IS retro-haling? It’s not the same thing as “breath smoking.”*

The article below is the best I’ve found on the practice.

But before you read it, I’ve learned to teach the practice in this quick, easy way:

Get a mouthful of smoke and then whisper “how oooommmm.”

That’s it.

That will put a little of the smoke up into the back of your throat and the bottom of your nasal passage without forcing it up into your sinuses. That’s where you can taste those nuance flavor differences --which means you get more flavor.

*In order to get a nice mouthful of smoke, you may need a few draws from your pipe while you close the back of your mouth with the back of your tongue in the back of your throat while you breathe through your nose for a few breaths. That’s “breath smoking.” A larger mouthful of creamy smoke will help you learn to retro-hale, howooooommmmm, without irritating your sinus cavities by fully exhaling through your nose.

Here’s that delightfully well-said article on retro-haling:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokin...le-technique-for-advanced-flavor-appreciation

And here’s another beauty on breath smoking:

https://www.smokingpipes.com/smokin...moking-flavor-and-comfort-with-breath-smoking

Enjoy practicing. I invite questions.

Happy piping,
Forrest

These practices/methods helped change my value and appreciation of pipe smoking. One thing I am fascinated by in taste from pipe tobacco, coffee, tea, etc., is that the tastes noted are many times references back to another plant like chocolate. I think the key to some of this is found in organic chemistry.

 

[Forrest]

These practices/methods helped change my value and appreciation of pipe smoking. One thing I am fascinated by in taste from pipe tobacco, coffee, tea, etc., is that the tastes noted are many times references back to another plant like chocolate. I think the key to some of this is found in organic chemistry.

I'm no chemist, but that hypothesis certainly sounds intuitive.