Am I the only one bothered by poorly balanced pipes?

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WarneOut

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I rarely see any complaints from others about how well balanced a pipe is, but it turns out that's the most important criteria regarding my enjoyment of a pipe.

I don't expect perfection, which is why I've been rather surprised that 85% of all the pipes I've ordered have been, to me, so overtly unsatisfactory that I've had to return them.

I don't care about most of the parameters you can find out about a pipe before buying. I couldn't care less about flashy colors, don't much care about finish, don't care about shape or style, and am flexible about the length and weight. Generally the more bare bones and simple a design, the more I like it.

What I can't tolerate in a pipe though, is a stem or shank that veers off to the side, or is otherwise obviously skewed or bent out of shape, ruining the alignment and balance in my hand, and making it wobbly and unstable in my teeth. Likewise for a badly lopsided stummel. If a pipe requires me to bite down on it hard to keep it stable in a clench, I basically cannot stand it. This unfortunately is something you can only find out after you've made the purchase.

The way I see it, a pipe is a tool. The only true purpose of a tool is to function well. Decoration is fine, but ultimately doesn't really matter.

I can't think of any other tool, handmade or otherwise, that anybody would tolerate being so wonky and mishapen, as most pipes apparently are. Imagine if you bought a hammer, a saw, a knife, or whatever, and the head/blade was lopsided and the handle curved off to the side in an uneven way. This just wouldn't be acceptable.

I am a musician, and have owned countless handmade instruments over the years. I've had upright basses, fretless basses, guitars, clarinets, you name it I've had it. These are instruments often 100% handmade from start to finish, made out of wood, and are PERFECTLY straight, even, balanced, and precisely shaped down to the millimeter, and these luthiers seem to have no trouble living up to that standard of excellence time and time again. A fretless bass with a misaligned neck is basically fit for firewood or the garbage bin.

For these reasons, I don't believe it's beyond the capability of a good craftsman to make tools out of wood that are at least generally evenly shaped and balanced. And to prove it, I do have a handful of briars that are balanced well enough that I'm happy with them.

But for every one I've been happy with, I've had to send back 8 or 9, for having appallingly crude shaping deformities (that are often conveniently not well captured in the listing's photo angles) like shanks that jut out way off center, stems that are bent out to the left or the right, and stummels that look like a middle school woodshop project. They give the impression of obviously defective items that should be listed as B-stock. This is in pipes at any price range from $100 - $300+.

As an aside, I've also found a wild variance in how well stems fit. Pipe makers seem to consider stems that are nearly falling out of the shank, to stems that require Herculean strength to remove all within the range of acceptability. This particular thing just seems so fixable that I don't understand why nobody cares to do it before a pipe leaves a workshop.

What bothers me about this lack of quality control is that pipes are not cheap, and not priced like something you'd expect to be made in a slapdash way. In other industries of handmade tools, the barest minimum expectation is generally that they should be straight, balanced enough, work well, and feel good in the hand. The bells and whistles are extra. With pipes, it seems like the bells and whistles are the main thing, and the actual craftsmanship is often an afterthought.

I'm hoping someone can help explain why this is the case. Is it simply that pipemakers don't care, or that consumers don't care, or something else? Do they not use rulers or take measurements? Help me understand! Thanks
 
I can't say I've seen any handmade pipes in the $100-$300 that's perfect. Most pipes I've seen in that range is machine assembly line made.
 
I would wonder where you're getting them from, I know the main manufacturers have varrying QC but 85% is enough to rule that out. Almost sounds like you're getting seconds or thirds passed off as the real deal. Some pipe brands are just the less desirable pipes from a big name like peterson or savinelli, rebranded for a lower price. I can't think of all the brands right now but I would be interested to see the list of pipes you have purchased. I find it impossible to believe that out of 10 brand new savinellis, anyone could find a glaring flaw in 2 of them, let alone 8 of them warranting a return. I genuinely say this without any malice or illintent, but if you are buying new, authentic, well known pipe brands and still experiencing trouble with 85% of them, than it is probably psychosomatic.
 
I would wonder where you're getting them from, I know the main manufacturers have varrying QC but 85% is enough to rule that out. Almost sounds like you're getting seconds or thirds passed off as the real deal. Some pipe brands are just the less desirable pipes from a big name like peterson or savinelli, rebranded for a lower price. I can't think of all the brands right now but I would be interested to see the list of pipes you have purchased. I find it impossible to believe that out of 10 brand new savinellis, anyone could find a glaring flaw in 2 of them, let alone 8 of them warranting a return. I genuinely say this without any malice or illintent, but if you are buying new, authentic, well known pipe brands and still experiencing trouble with 85% of them, than it is probably psychosomatic.
I've bought over 15 Savinellis and yes I have returned most of them. Most from SmokingPipes.

If something is bent out of shape or lopsided, psychology has nothing to do with it. If you're suggesting I'm so removed from reality that I see straight lines as bent, that I consider balanced objects to be imbalanced, and vice versa, all I can say to that is that I can assure you that isn't the case. Given that I'm the one seeing differences from pipe to pipe, and you seem to think they're all about the same, it would seem more likely that you lack discernment(?) than that I have mental problems.

I can't fault you for this, but you are of course not aware of the amount of time Ive spent working with precise measurements. I repaired guitars for around 5 years. People were happy with my work. Yes I can tell you if something is straight or not, or well balanced or not, and I'd bet my life on it. I also own tools like rulers, and levels, that are easily able to confirm what I'm seeing with my eyes and feeling with my hands and teeth.

If there is doubt about the evenness of a stem or shank in relation to the stummel, all you need to do is take the pipe and prop it up against a wall. If it more or less stands straight and retains its position, there is likely no significant skew. If the pipe dives off to one side or the other or wobbles excessively, then it is evidently unevenly balanced, and will behave the same way when placed between your teeth. There is no element of psychology or mental health that plays a part in simple tests like these.

Edit: This post has been edited several times to be more specific and tone down the rudeness 😅
Happy smoking my friend.
 
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I can't say I've seen any handmade pipes in the $100-$300 that's perfect. Most pipes I've seen in that range is machine assembly line made.
Perfection isn't a requirement. As I mentioned, I have a few briars that I kept, from Vauen and Savinelli, that have no real balance issues and I'm happy with them. They aren't perfect, but they're good enough that I have no issue.

I would be fine with a 100% machine made pipe that was cut from a template and was perfectly balanced. My confusion is regarding why it doesn't seem possible to do this. Across many other industries, people have been able to figure out how to cut things in relatively uniform shapes.

Every table, chair, or other piece of furniture, every automotive vehicle, etc, nearly everything in today's world is dependent on the ability to create exact shapes.
 
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This is a forum about brotherhood and mutual respect, it is full of levelheaded and jovial conversations among friends. I suggested you had a unique mental quirk about pipes because as you yourself pointed out multiple times, no one else has this problem to such a degree. I apologize because I just hadn't realized I was dealing with someone so smart. Your knowledge and experience are very evident, and it is a blessing to have around here, I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to learning more from you about this hobby. I took a long look at some of my pipes and realized they are mostly all crooked, hopefully some sucker will still buy them for half price on ebay! So thank you again for your calm and extremely humble response that made me realize how wrong I was, in the future I will go with the pre-approved response that you actually provided! Which highlighted your uniqueness and self-awareness.
 
I greatly appreciate the beautiful level of calm and reasoned discourse shown here. There have been times when something like this would almost certainly devolve into a bar fight with biting and gouging. So Mosin1932 and WarneOut…you have both my thanks and my respect.

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This is a forum about brotherhood and mutual respect, it is full of levelheaded and jovial conversations among friends. I suggested you had a unique mental quirk about pipes because as you yourself pointed out multiple times, no one else has this problem to such a degree. I apologize because I just hadn't realized I was dealing with someone so smart. Your knowledge and experience are very evident, and it is a blessing to have around here, I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to learning more from you about this hobby. I took a long look at some of my pipes and realized they are mostly all crooked, hopefully some sucker will still buy them for half price on ebay! So thank you again for your calm and extremely humble response that made me realize how wrong I was, in the future I will go with the pre-approved response that you actually provided! Which highlighted your uniqueness and self-awareness.
This reads as either biting sarcasm or effusive praise the likes of which I am most certainly NOT deserving. I will choose to read it as being the latter ;)
 
I don’t see it as sarcasm.
"I took a long look at some of my pipes and realized they are mostly all crooked, hopefully some sucker will still buy them for half price on ebay!"

"in the future I will go with the pre-approved response that you actually provided! Which highlighted your uniqueness and self-awareness."

"I didn't realize I was dealing with someone so smart"

These comments sound pretty snarky to me. If someone asked me to parody sincerity I don't think I could do a better job.

If he had left out the part about getting rid of all his pipes for half price on ebay now that I told him they might not be straight, it would've perhaps been a bit more subtle?

Either way, I appreciate the wry humor and take no offense lol
 
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I rarely see any complaints from others about how well balanced a pipe is, but it turns out that's the most important criteria regarding my enjoyment of a pipe.

I don't expect perfection, which is why I've been rather surprised that 85% of all the pipes I've ordered have been, to me, so overtly unsatisfactory that I've had to return them.

I don't care about most of the parameters you can find out about a pipe before buying. I couldn't care less about flashy colors, don't much care about finish, don't care about shape or style, and am flexible about the length and weight. Generally the more bare bones and simple a design, the more I like it.

What I can't tolerate in a pipe though, is a stem or shank that veers off to the side, or is otherwise obviously skewed or bent out of shape, ruining the alignment and balance in my hand, and making it wobbly and unstable in my teeth. Likewise for a badly lopsided stummel. If a pipe requires me to bite down on it hard to keep it stable in a clench, I basically cannot stand it. This unfortunately is something you can only find out after you've made the purchase.

The way I see it, a pipe is a tool. The only true purpose of a tool is to function well. Decoration is fine, but ultimately doesn't really matter.

I can't think of any other tool, handmade or otherwise, that anybody would tolerate being so wonky and mishapen, as most pipes apparently are. Imagine if you bought a hammer, a saw, a knife, or whatever, and the head/blade was lopsided and the handle curved off to the side in an uneven way. This just wouldn't be acceptable.

I am a musician, and have owned countless handmade instruments over the years. I've had upright basses, fretless basses, guitars, clarinets, you name it I've had it. These are instruments often 100% handmade from start to finish, made out of wood, and are PERFECTLY straight, even, balanced, and precisely shaped down to the millimeter, and these luthiers seem to have no trouble living up to that standard of excellence time and time again. A fretless bass with a misaligned neck is basically fit for firewood or the garbage bin.

For these reasons, I don't believe it's beyond the capability of a good craftsman to make tools out of wood that are at least generally evenly shaped and balanced. And to prove it, I do have a handful of briars that are balanced well enough that I'm happy with them.

But for every one I've been happy with, I've had to send back 8 or 9, for having appallingly crude shaping deformities (that are often conveniently not well captured in the listing's photo angles) like shanks that jut out way off center, stems that are bent out to the left or the right, and stummels that look like a middle school woodshop project. They give the impression of obviously defective items that should be listed as B-stock. This is in pipes at any price range from $100 - $300+.

As an aside, I've also found a wild variance in how well stems fit. Pipe makers seem to consider stems that are nearly falling out of the shank, to stems that require Herculean strength to remove all within the range of acceptability. This particular thing just seems so fixable that I don't understand why nobody cares to do it before a pipe leaves a workshop.

What bothers me about this lack of quality control is that pipes are not cheap, and not priced like something you'd expect to be made in a slapdash way. In other industries of handmade tools, the barest minimum expectation is generally that they should be straight, balanced enough, work well, and feel good in the hand. The bells and whistles are extra. With pipes, it seems like the bells and whistles are the main thing, and the actual craftsmanship is often an afterthought.

I'm hoping someone can help explain why this is the case. Is it simply that pipemakers don't care, or that consumers don't care, or something else? Do they not use rulers or take measurements? Help me understand! Thanks
Most of my pipes are cheap. Really cheap. Except for a Stanwell I bought 50 years ago probably not more than $30-40. I have found them mostly very enjoyable though if I were an expert I'd find structural faults with them.
 
Do you have any photos to show us as examples of this? I think I understand what you're seeing, but I also don't think I've seen it very often. I do remember owning a Radice that the stem was so twisted out of alignment that I had to assume it happened after it left the factory. This thing was so out of whack that it couldn't have left the factory without someone noticing. Fortunately for me, I got it for nothing in a larger trade, and it was a consistently phenomenal smoker, so I never cared very much.
 
Do you have any photos to show us as examples of this? I think I understand what you're seeing, but I also don't think I've seen it very often. I do remember owning a Radice that the stem was so twisted out of alignment that I had to assume it happened after it left the factory. This thing was so out of whack that it couldn't have left the factory without someone noticing. Fortunately for me, I got it for nothing in a larger trade, and it was a consistently phenomenal smoker, so I never cared very much.
I'm not much of a photographer, in fact I haven't posted a photo to this site yet so I still need to figure out how to do that.

Unfortunately I have already returned the worst offending pipes that would have made for the most obvious pictures, but if I come across an example of what I was referring to again, I'll make sure to grab a couple pictures before sending it back.
 
It occurs to me now, (though it should have before), that I broke my jaw as a kid, and have consequently probably never developed as strong a jaw as I guess most other people probably have.

If a pipe isn't balanced right, I really feel a noticeable pull on my jaw when trying to hold it between my teeth, but if my jaw was a lot stronger this may very well not be as problem.

A well balanced pipes rests effortlessly in my teeth without having to exert bite pressure, which is why it's apparently so important for me to have it that way.

I do have a lot of physiological chronic health problems that impact the way I'm able to enjoy certain things in life, and sometimes I forget or am not aware that others simply don't have the issues that I have.

Aesthetically at least I would have thought others might be bothered by misshapen items in general, but I guess I have less generous expectations of what a constitutes a product of acceptable quality.

If all the pipes I had paid $150 for that I had problems with were $50 instead, I doubt I would've had any complaints, so it's also possible I'm just expecting my dollar to get me more than it does in today's world.

I think we can call this thread concluded, as it seems that it is pretty much only me that has issues with wonky pipes.

Thanks everyone for your input.
 
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WarneOut: I like Zeno Marx think I understand what you referring to when you refer to a "balanced" pipe but in my minds eye some of your examples to me are more astetects then balance. To me a well made/balanced pipe has more to do with the fit of the stem, how the airway is cut into the tobacco chamber, etc. Just the nature and density of a briar block prior to carving could affect your balance test. It appears based on your comments concerning your work on instruments have you ever considered making your own pipes. I would assume a lot of the tooling for making and repairing instruments are the same when it comes to pipe making. Just my humble thoughts.
 
It occurs to me now, (though it should have before), that I broke my jaw as a kid, and have consequently probably never developed as strong a jaw as I guess most other people probably have.

I had quite a bad bicycle accident when I was a kid (maybe 4th grade?). Went over the front of my bike and landed mostly on my chin, hadn't learned yet that the way to stop a fall was NOT face first lol. Anyway, jaw
basically broken off. Broke at both joints and was just kind of hanging off my face. Wired shut for almost two months. So I feel your pain there. It did fix the slight cross bite I had though lol.
 
WarneOut: I like Zeno Marx think I understand what you referring to when you refer to a "balanced" pipe but in my minds eye some of your examples to me are more astetects then balance. To me a well made/balanced pipe has more to do with the fit of the stem, how the airway is cut into the tobacco chamber, etc. Just the nature and density of a briar block prior to carving could affect your balance test. It appears based on your comments concerning your work on instruments have you ever considered making your own pipes. I would assume a lot of the tooling for making and repairing instruments are the same when it comes to pipe making. Just my humble thoughts.
Hi Mike,
To be more clear, I would say that the problem I had with any of these pipes was not merely aesthetics, but that the aesthetic problems were correlated with the balance problems. The looks of a pipe don't bother me as long as the feel between my teeth is correct. I primarily clench my pipes which is why that is the most important factor to me.

For example, if the tip of a stem is twisted down and to the right by 15⁰, when placed in your mouth it will fall 15⁰ sideways to the left when rested between the teeth.

For people that "bite" to clench, they may not notice any such problems, because the bite strength can correct for the imbalance. For those of us that prefer "resting" a pipe in the teeth, we are constrained by the way the pipe sits in an unaffected resting position.

I think my weaker jaw makes me particular susceptible to noticing such differences.

Also one more clarification - when I said I've had to send back 85% of all the pipes I ordered, not all of those were for misaligned stems/shanks. That was my biggest pet peeve, but I also had to send a couple back for having stems that were very nearly stuck in the pipe, and had to send 2 back for having stems loose enough to nearly fall out of the shank.

I also had to send a few (Vauens) back for having unreasonably tight draws or not being able to pass a cleaner. I will say Savinellis have great drilling, and I've never had any such problems with them.

I would love to try my hand at making a pipe one day, but I have a disorder of the inner ears that causes ordinary levels of sound to cause me extreme pain, so I cannot really even leave the house these days much less work with tools. I hope to recover one day and be able to do that.
 
Hi Warney,
Have you tried any metal pipes? I am always surprised how light my flacon is in the clench very very lite, probably why they called them the working mans pipe. There are so many in my opinion that I have great engineering like the Aristo Cob, Kirsten, Jimas just to name a few.
Edit. Because I too have had Brocken jaws but not from the above reasons though ;)
 
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