Imperfections To Be Expected?

[Kyle Weiss]

One guy, one pipe, and a flurry of arguments both for and against.

I consider myself lucky at this point if I spend $50 - $100 for a pipe that has no imperfections or fills.

I consider myself doing very okay with the fact that a $100 - $300 has extremely minor (meaning, you have to look really, really hard under bright light to find them) issues).

I consider myself deciding maybe I'd say something if a $300+ pipe had some even smaller, minute flaw (electron microscope) that I managed to uncover.

Everyone has a right to their own standard of buying quality. By all means, gents, be picky. Please do. I'm eager to jump on your scraps and left-overs. If for some reason you can't deal with a mistake purchase and cannot get it resolved, you know where to find me. At a discounted price for such a disappointing pipe, of course. 8)

 

[dshpipes]

One guy, one pipe, and a flurry of arguments both for and against.

I consider myself lucky at this point if I spend $50 - $100 for a pipe that has no imperfections or fills.

I consider myself doing very okay with the fact that a $100 - $300 has extremely minor (meaning, you have to look really, really hard under bright light to find them) issues).

I consider myself deciding maybe I'd say something if a $300+ pipe had some even smaller, minute flaw (electron microscope) that I managed to uncover.

Everyone has a right to their own standard of buying quality. By all means, gents, be picky. Please do. I'm eager to jump on your scraps and left-overs. If for some reason you can't deal with a mistake purchase and cannot get it resolved, you know where to find me. At a discounted price for such a disappointing pipe, of course. 8)

Once again, Kyle showers us with his wisdom.

Seriously though, Kyle's right on the money. Being picky pays off if what you're after is perfection in your collection. If you're ok with a tiny flaw here and there that almost no one else will ever notice unless you point it out, then compromise on your Pete. If everything else is good, I think it'd be a shame to return it.

 

[plumbernater]

I buy a pipe to smoke. I also have to like the way it looks. Just like building a house you have boards you cull out that are not good enough to be used, at least if you are a good carpenter, It seems today every one is chasing the dollar and not the quality, and that sux. Im a plumber now and live from my name being passed around, for being fair and good work. When that stops my name will not be passed around any more. In retail that seems not to count any more. I want and buy then bitch about the item. If they can do this, it the consumers fault. Send it back and the complant will count for something. Maybe they will tighten up if enough people complain. Remember the ones making these pipes now, their name is not on it, like years ago.

 

[Rusty Mouse]

That being said, that flaw could also have happened during transit. Is it a chip? Also, is it as deep as it looks?

It definitely looks like a chip at first glance, but upon closer inspection you notice how smooth and uniform it is, almost like it's meant to be there (which it's not).

 

[Kyle Weiss]

This has been said 1,000 times, so here's 1001:

Quality of materials harvested isn't what it used to be--it isn't like refining metal in a foundry, machining it to ideal specs and having a perfect product--a pipe is only as good as the briar it is made from foremost, and how the manufacturer/maker deals with these pieces--do they scrap 100 pieces for every 1 pipe they make to keep up the standard? Or do they sell 50 out of the other 99 as "seconds?" It's been like this for quite a while with briar. And we pay every red cent for the privilege of collecting/smoking that "1 out of 100." 8)

I can't fault companies for making do with their product, bought almost by chance in bulk, more like someone would buy a bushel of apples rather than billets of steel. There's gonna be a few bad apples--and then there's the magic of apple juice, apple sauce, apple butter, apple pie filler--all made from "apple seconds."

I consider the creative use of "not-as-good" an art in and of itself. In pipes, I call it "uniqueness," provided the pipe is sound and smokeable in every other respect.

As for a flaw in the stem, that can be easily remedied by ignoring it and smoking it, sending it back and having your way, or smoothing it out yourself with a little file and some sandpaper, buffing it to a shine and no one but you being the wiser. 8)

 

[plumbernater]

Remember chevy and ford had to tighten up when their work was falling short of a good car

 

[Rusty Mouse]

You do have a good point there Zeno.

I am Farrier by trade,,,and I charge the going rate for my area, but I tend to give my clients horses an average of an extra 1/2 hour per visit, just to make my finished work "Cosmetically Appealing".
last year I gained an account, because the lady saw one of my clients horses feet, and she said, she wanted her horses feet to look like that, and asked who did her farrier work.
And , when I gain an account, and Im on my first visit, I see how the Farrier prior to me was doing said horses feet. And I NEVER belittle or talk down another farriers work, (actually I try to make excuses for "WHY" they did something a certain way)
But i tell ya, its like alot of farriers are just showing up, slapping shoes on real quick , and moving on FAST, to the next horse. Chasing the Dollar.
Quantity, vs Quality, has become the way to make a dollar.

But , even though I strive for "Quality" in everything I do , even to the point of being anal. Sometimes I do miss a beat myself, I'm not as perfect as I wish I was, and my clients dont hold it against me , because over all, I am a Quality driven guy, and they know it.

So, I guess thats how I feel about my Petes, Overall , they put out some awesome pipes, and they cant be perfect 100% of the time.

But I do see your point, and 20- 30 years ago, I was demanding of Quality,, but , these days, I strive to be "content" with my life. This is where I sit back and relax , and enjoy the good things, and not sweat the small stuff.

Having read this makes me realize that I've forgotten one of my own morals and that is if you're going to do it, do it right the first time, granted that everyone messes up, that's a given, I'm hardly upset about the pipe, I haven't given up on Peterson whatsoever, I just know this little imperfection will probably bug me. I'd never ever buy from someone without a solid return policy, this time I'm going to utilize it. For every 4 pipes I buy I usually send one back.

 

[Zeno Marx]

I shouldn't have gotten involved in this thread. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine: the acceptance of poor quality and the excuses made for it. It speaks volumes [to me] about where we are as a culture. It isn't just about hard-earned dollars and type-A personalities, either. Right up there with the acceptance of planned obsolescence.

It sounds like an injection flaw, and if so, it would have cost them pennies to discard and replace. Or that someone maybe buffed it so they wouldn't have to necessarily replace. This is like the company personally calling me up, laughing in my ear, and knowingly playing me the fool.

Time to stop watching this thread. It does nothing but sadden and depress me.

 

[Rusty Mouse]

This has been said 1,000 times, so here's 1001:

Quality of materials harvested isn't what it used to be--it isn't like refining metal in a foundry, machining it to ideal specs and having a perfect product--a pipe is only as good as the briar it is made from foremost, and how the manufacturer/maker deals with these pieces--do they scrap 100 pieces for every 1 pipe they make to keep up the standard? Or do they sell 50 out of the other 99 as "seconds?" It's been like this for quite a while with briar. And we pay every red cent for the privilege of collecting/smoking that "1 out of 100." 8)

I can't fault companies for making do with their product, bought almost by chance in bulk, more like someone would buy a bushel of apples rather than billets of steel. There's gonna be a few bad apples--and then there's the magic of apple juice, apple sauce, apple butter, apple pie filler--all made from "apple seconds."

I consider the creative use of "not-as-good" an art in and of itself. In pipes, I call it "uniqueness," provided the pipe is sound and smokeable in every other respect.

As for a flaw in the stem, that can be easily remedied by ignoring it and smoking it, sending it back and having your way, or smoothing it out yourself with a little file and some sandpaper, buffing it to a shine and no one but you being the wiser. 8)

Ahh but you see, me being the wiser is my one and only problem What anyone else thinks of my pipe is bound to differ from what I do (this thread being a prime example). By no means do I have issues with fills, pits or NATURAL imperfections in the wood, that's why I love it, no one piece will be the same. The stem however, for me, should be near perfect considering it's a man made material and very easy to work with.

 

[Rusty Mouse]

I shouldn't have gotten involved in this thread. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine: the acceptance of poor quality and the excuses made for it. It speaks volumes [to me] about where we are as a culture. It isn't just about hard-earned dollars and type-A personalities, either. Right up there with the acceptance of planned obsolescence.

It sounds like an injection flaw, and if so, it would have cost them pennies to discard and replace. Or that someone maybe buffed it so they wouldn't have to necessarily replace. This is like the company personally calling me up, laughing in my ear, and knowingly playing me the fool.

Time to stop watching this thread. It does nothing but sadden and depress me.

You're wrong sir, I'm pleased that you involved yourself in this thread, I think you make an incredibly valid point, one that I'm going to act upon. If I'm not pleased, I should return it, simple as that, am I right? I thank you.

 

[Zeno Marx]

Remember chevy and ford had to tighten up when their work was falling short of a good car

close enough wasn't good enough, and it almost never should be.

 

[Boulder]

You folks are maybe far too forgiving. Or maybe I'm too tight with my money. Or maybe a whole lot of other things are going on here as well. Fills are one thing, but imperfections in molded plastic, lazy finishing of the wood (like lathe marks etc), double stamping, and other things that should be noticed by someone in the process of making the pipe to preparing the pipe for shipment that would require mere seconds to notice and/or remedy should not be acceptable if a company has any pride in their product or their work. My cut-off wouldn't even be $75 or $100. It would be closer to $40-50 that I *might* be okay with such sloppy quality control.

I sold $7 retail bucket pipes that didn't ever have this kind of problem. The stems weren't ill-fitting or cockeyed in any way, either.

I apologize if this offends anyone, but this kind of acceptance by a customer base is exactly why we see this kind of poor quality in our manufacturing. Our biggest vote is with our dollars. It's an ill relationship when they're allowed to kick this level of quality at us. It sets a horrible tone and precedent when we turn a blind eye. There's no reason at all that a $75 pipe should have a mouthpiece with this kind of flaw.

I have to say I agree with his point.

All pipes follow a production Prototype from hand made to assembly line. At some point a worker on the product or at least a Quality control person should find and separate the sub-par and not stamp them or mark them and sell them Priced accordingly as Seconds.

Then it is the responsibility of the seller to inspect all product sold to ensure quality and price value to it customers.

As the end user if a product is not represented and priced as sub-par, should question seller and negotiate price adjustment or replacement.

Just my two cents for what it's worth.

 

[Rusty Mouse]

Let's say this, if every Peterson sent out all of their pipes with a flaw such as this they wouldn't have the consumer numbers and reputation (which I think is a good one) that they do. As I've said, I'm not burning Peterson nor am I burning the vendor, this kind of thing is bound to happen at one point or another in any dollar bracket in any product you buy. I'm still really rather torn, if someone looked at me and shunned me because of my "unique" qualities, I'd be pretty pissed. Then again, they're not paying to be with me. So should I consider this a unique quality like what we call our shortcomings or a flaw?

 

[Rusty Mouse]

You folks are maybe far too forgiving. Or maybe I'm too tight with my money. Or maybe a whole lot of other things are going on here as well. Fills are one thing, but imperfections in molded plastic, lazy finishing of the wood (like lathe marks etc), double stamping, and other things that should be noticed by someone in the process of making the pipe to preparing the pipe for shipment that would require mere seconds to notice and/or remedy should not be acceptable if a company has any pride in their product or their work. My cut-off wouldn't even be $75 or $100. It would be closer to $40-50 that I *might* be okay with such sloppy quality control.

I sold $7 retail bucket pipes that didn't ever have this kind of problem. The stems weren't ill-fitting or cockeyed in any way, either.

I apologize if this offends anyone, but this kind of acceptance by a customer base is exactly why we see this kind of poor quality in our manufacturing. Our biggest vote is with our dollars. It's an ill relationship when they're allowed to kick this level of quality at us. It sets a horrible tone and precedent when we turn a blind eye. There's no reason at all that a $75 pipe should have a mouthpiece with this kind of flaw.

I have to say I agree with his point.

All pipes follow a production Prototype from hand made to assembly line. At some point a worker on the product or at least a Quality control person should find and separate the sub-par and not stamp them or mark them and sell them Priced accordingly as Seconds.

Then it is the responsibility of the seller to inspect all product sold to ensure quality and price value to it customers.

As the end user if a product is not represented and priced as sub-par, should question seller and negotiate price adjustment or replacement.

Just my two cents for what it's worth.

Agreed. A few more dollars spent on better quality control could mean many more dollars from consumers. They could go from they company you're taking a chance on, to the company that is near flawless. I jumped on my Cavicchi because he was described as a man of a perfectionist nature and that some of his lower grade pipes are considered to be in the same bracket as some other companies high grades. It was a consistent description of his work and it holds true in the piece that I have, which makes me completely comfortable with investing in another one of his pipes.

 

[Zeno Marx]

Let's say this, if every Peterson sent out all of their pipes with a flaw such as this they wouldn't have the consumer numbers and reputation (which I think is a good one) that they do.

This could be a long, argued, lines-drawn thread in itself. I was a tobacconist and managed a shop. A couple of the owner's friends were longtime Peterson collectors and devotees. I saw a lot of Petersons. I didn't walk away from the experience thinking Peterson ever had a tight grasp on quality control (and they obviously still do not).

 

[Rusty Mouse]

As you can see folks, I'm all over the place today, please bare with me. It's not like it was a cheap pipe, but it's not like it's a flaw that takes away from its functionality. A confused man, I am :|

 

[Rusty Mouse]

Let's say this, if every Peterson sent out all of their pipes with a flaw such as this they wouldn't have the consumer numbers and reputation (which I think is a good one) that they do.

This could be a long, argued, lines-drawn thread in itself. I was a tobacconist and managed a shop. A couple of the owner's friends were longtime Peterson collectors and devotees. I saw a lot of Petersons. I didn't walk away from the experience thinking Peterson ever had a tight grasp on quality control (and they obviously still do not).

See you and I are going to be the guys with the same opinion now and are going to tell our tales to other folks asking for our opinions on Peterson. There is always going to be the conflicting review from the guy or girl that has had dumb luck and every one of their Peterson's is perfect.

 

[Rusty Mouse]

Remember chevy and ford had to tighten up when their work was falling short of a good car

close enough wasn't good enough, and it almost never should be.

So you say that I'm not wrong in striving for perfection in my new pipes?

 

[Boulder]

Let's say this, if every Peterson sent out all of their pipes with a flaw such as this they wouldn't have the consumer numbers and reputation (which I think is a good one) that they do. As I've said, I'm not burning Peterson nor am I burning the vendor, this kind of thing is bound to happen at one point or another in any dollar bracket in any product you buy. I'm still really rather torn, if someone looked at me and shunned me because of my "unique" qualities, I'd be pretty pissed. Then again, they're not paying to be with me. So should I consider this a unique quality like what we call our shortcomings or a flaw?

I think the point should be, it should never have been sent to you the consumer with out detection of any imperfection and seller should of made you aware in item description of imperfection and priced accordingly, not surprise here it is.

 

[plumbernater]

I would like to say that peterson has a great pipe and the old petersons ive aquired are nice the new ive been seeing have gone down in quality. You probably have a bean counter there thats saying to not be so picky about the brair that is used, as we speak they are making wood filler. SO there you go. I still like their pipes. And I still have a chevy that will out run a ford :roll: