Italian vs English Pipes

[Sasquatch]

An eBay buyer named JimmyCraig buys Greek blocks from time to time. So that's either a really wild coincidence, or Ashton is using some Greek briar.

Dunhill's stummels all come out of France now, I believe. Briar origin unknown to me.

Anything oil cured (like Ferndown or Ashton) will taste of oil curing more than briar itself.



Briar origin has basically nothing to do with anything. There are nice pieces of briar and crappy pieces of briar from all regions. How the blocks are processed at the cutter is of far greater importance. Knowing that briar is "Italian" for example tells you very little about how the briar will act in a pipe. Knowing the briar was cut and cured at the Romeo mill tells you more.

 

[Anonymous]

Briar origin has basically nothing to do with anything.

Except that, in select instances it does.

Garbage or mis-handled briar (also =garbage) is what it is no matter where it came from.

But Castellos taste like Castellos. They simply do. Partly from where the briar grew, and partly from years of laying around in the local climate while they finished curing.

New (post-1980 something) Petersons I can't speak about, but the old ones, made of Spanish briar (many of their stummels were turned there as well), have a preternatural affinity for Virginia flakes. The combination of the two yields a flavor that's rounder and fuller than the same tobacco is in other pipes, the equivalent of something like the way a car radio with the bass knob turned up sounds.

It isn't as pronounced as it is with wine, where a particular vineyard, and even the particular spot in a particular vineyard where the grapes grew can be a decisive (and consistent) influence on the outcome. But it's not as if "grapes are just grapes" either.

:face:

 

[Zeno Marx]

I'm a bit confused here. Are there people who claim "oil curing" never happened and is just folklore?

 

[riff raff]

Here's a pretty interesting article by Dr. Fred Hanna on pipe brands and briar origins:
http://www.greatnorthernpipeclub.org/Myth.htm

This paragraph in particular was of interest for this thread:

Let us consider geographical origin for a moment. Most serious pipe collectors have owned and smoked pipes made from briar that comes from Algeria, Greece, Corsica, Sardinia, Liguria, Tuscany, Calabria, and other lesser known regions. Is there a taste difference based on region or country? There is none that I can determine. Let us return to Dunhill for a basis of comparison. Dunhill provided information on origins several decades back. As I recall, shells were alleged to be made of Algerian briar, tanshells were made of Sardinian briar, and roots were made of Calabrian briar. But I personally know of no collectors who say that either shells or roots have a flavor superior to the other. It does appear to be true, however, that briar from certain regions has different physical qualities. For example, Algerian tends to be softer and Calabrian seems to be harder. But this does not seem to be related to taste and smoking potential. Over the years, the geographical line of inquiry has not provided a satisfactory answer to our question of why some pipes smoke so great. As Tom Eltang said, "The origin is not so important. You can get good briar, as well as poor, from most Mediterranean countries." Perhaps it is time to consider an alternate avenue of inquiry.

 

[plumbernater]

I have 11 Italian pipes and 2 english pipes . My Italian pipes are all nice smokers. My 2 English are really nice as well. My english pipes have a bit larger bowls and smoke completly different which I enjoy for different moods and enjoyment.

 

[Anonymous]

I personally know of no collectors who say that either shells or roots have a flavor superior to the other.

Collectors, maybe. But I know two highly knowledgeable Dunhill collectors whose names you'd recognise who, after years of experience and smoking more of them than I would ever care to, are agreed that the black shells of the pre-1960 era were the high water line of English pipes (a perception mirrored in their prices, irrespective of size and shape). And that, so far as their taste goes, many of their other lines (unidentified here to avoid antagonising those who like them) are collectors' items.

De gustibus non disputandem.

:face:

 

[Sasquatch]

Garbage or mis-handled briar (also =garbage) is what it is no matter where it came from.

But Castellos taste like Castellos. They simply do. Partly from where the briar grew, and partly from years of laying around in the local climate while they finished curing.

:face:

My argument is not a "briar is briar" argument at all - I agree - different briar has different physical properties including taste. My point is that who cuts and cures the briar is more important than where the actual bush grew.

 

[riff raff]

Mordichai Ezrati, who owns James Upshall sells pipes on ebay. He has this in the description for all the Upshalls on his ebay store:

It has been made from finest quality, air cured 100 years old Grecian plateaux briar, as traditionally used by the James Upshall studios.

My Upshall was made in the early 90's, so I assume of similar briar (as Yak suggested earlier).

I'd love to add this P-grade bulldog to my rack....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-BULLDOG-DIAMOND-SHANK-NEW-NO-RESERVE-/400259051436?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d314c6fac

 

[Kyle Weiss]

Mordichai Ezrati, who owns James Upshall sells pipes on ebay. He has this in the description for all the Upshalls on his ebay store:

It has been made from finest quality, air cured 100 years old Grecian plateaux briar, as traditionally used by the James Upshall studios.

My Upshall was made in the early 90's, so I assume of similar briar (as Yak suggested earlier).

I'd love to add this P-grade bulldog to my rack....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-BULLDOG-DIAMOND-SHANK-NEW-NO-RESERVE-/400259051436?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d314c6fac

Geez, that eBay seller has some good stuff...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-BARREL-SITTER-MINT-NR-/400259052185?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d314c7299

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-L-JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-FREEHAND-SKATER-SITTER-NOS-NR-/400253690707?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d30faa353

Prices ain't half bad, either...

 

[riff raff]

Yep, that barrel sitter is looking particuarly good!

Mordichai Ezrati, who owns James Upshall sells pipes on ebay. He has this in the description for all the Upshalls on his ebay store:

It has been made from finest quality, air cured 100 years old Grecian plateaux briar, as traditionally used by the James Upshall studios.

My Upshall was made in the early 90's, so I assume of similar briar (as Yak suggested earlier).

I'd love to add this P-grade bulldog to my rack....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-BULLDOG-DIAMOND-SHANK-NEW-NO-RESERVE-/400259051436?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d314c6fac

Geez, that eBay seller has some good stuff...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-BARREL-SITTER-MINT-NR-/400259052185?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d314c7299

http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-L-JAMES-UPSHALL-P-GRADE-FREEHAND-SKATER-SITTER-NOS-NR-/400253690707?pt=UK_Collectables_Tobacciana_Smoking_LE&hash=item5d30faa353

Prices ain't half bad, either...

 

[Anonymous]

It's kind of interesting that craftsmen in England tend to be dealers in their own (used as well as new) work.

You don't see that here.

:face:

 

[riff raff]

It's kind of interesting that craftsmen in England tend to be dealers in their own (used as well as new) work.

You don't see that here.

:face:

Mr. Ezrati may be a special case. He is just a very wealthy pipe collector who didn't want the Upshall brand to disappear. JM Boswells daughter sells their older pipes on Ebay, that might be the only similar US setup.