Pipe shapes and a full bend.

[friar_jay]

Forgive me for the ridiculously noob question.

Can you get a full bend on any of the classic shapes? Like can you get a bulldog with a full bend?

Just wondering...thanks.

 

[LIPIPE]

A full bend to me would be an oom paul. Don't think other pipes actually come in a full bend, certainly not a bulldog.

 

[friar_jay]

A full bend to me would be an oom paul. Don't think other pipes actually come in a full bend, certainly not a bulldog.

Okay, thanks for the reply. I didn't think a bulldog would qualify for a full bend stem...just curious.

After listening to episode 5 of the Pipes Magazine Radio Show I know have a better understanding of the various styles of classic pipes.

 

[George Kaplan]

Depending om who you ask, a full bend usually means parallel to the bowl, and whenever you see that, it's usually the defining characteristic of the Oom Paul. Many times, however, you'll see a half-to-3/4 bent pipe descirbed as "full bent". Most bent bulldogs are in the 1/4 bent range, but that doesn't mean there's not someone out there making pipes with a bulldog/rhodesian type bowl with a steeper angle to the shank; it's just not very common. Once you start changing a standard design, piping conservatives often prefer it be called something else, and the names of shapes tend to become a semantic argument, which is one reason why manufactures refer to their designs my number rather than name.
If you do find that full-bent bulldog, though, be sure to let us see it!

 

[LIPIPE]

George: A bulldog pipe is an "in your face" right out front styled pipe. Fully bent I don't think would work for a bulldog. Most fully bents are billiards. The ultimate fully bent therefore becomes an oom paul.

 

[George Kaplan]

George: A bulldog pipe is an "in your face" right out front styled pipe. Fully bent I don't think would work for a bulldog.

I'm trying to picture it myself, and I can't. I agree with you, Marty, but that helps to illustrate my point about changing the design until it should maybe be called something else. Friar Jay may be thinking of something specific when he says bulldog that you or I may consider insignificant. Actually, the example of the bulldog shape already starts arguments over what exactly defines it. My point is that eventually it becomes pointless to worry about what a pipe is called, especially if it deviates much from the norm. Yes, the overly-bent bulldog I'm halfway picturing right now would look pretty silly, and I wouldn't call it a bulldog either, but Fri may be thinking of something of something else entirely.

 

[LIPIPE]

George: I guess we might name it a great dane/bulldog mutt.

 

[George Kaplan]

George: I guess we might name it a great dane/bulldog mutt.

I like it! I've got an old squat-bowled corncob with a 1/4 bent diamond shank that I call my "Corn Dog".

 

[Vito]

...Can you get a full bend on any of the classic shapes? Like can you get a bulldog with a full bend?

Just wondering...thanks.

friar_jay:

Full-bent bulldogs are rare, but they do exist. As I recall, Claudio Cavicchi made some pipes in that shape. I might have a photo somewhere. If I can find it I'll post it for you.

 

[Sasquatch]

I would argue that what makes a bulldog is the "smoke stack" shape, the 2 rings, and a diamond shank. Do these things with a full bent shank, and you'd have a full bent bulldog.

It's REALLY hard to spin anything but a straight billard bowl when you do a full bent pipe on the lathe, because the shank comes around and gets in the way of the cutting tool. So there are definite limitations when you cut a full bent pipe.

The GKCPC pipe competition next year has specified "Dublin, Cutty, or Zulu" and I'm thinking "Hey, maybe I can enter a full bent Dublin"

 

[Deleted member 2386]

It's by no means a full bend, but my beloved Jirsa 14, despite being called a Calabash shape, always struck me as being way more of a bent dog. Mine is rusticated up to the bowl line, and darker overall, but otherwise here she be:


Bent Jirsa Bulldog at Smoking Pipes

So if you like dogs but also want a bent, keep your eyes peeled for another one of these--I bought mine new in a B&M for a very reasonable price, and it's proven to be one of my very best smokers. Happy hunting!

 

[Deleted member 2386]

The GKCPC pipe competition next year has specified "Dublin, Cutty, or Zulu" and I'm thinking "Hey, maybe I can enter a full bent Dublin"

That I would love to see! Three of my favorite shapes there--something sea captain-y about all of'em, despite the obvious differences between a Dublin and the latter two...

 

[riff raff]

I have a few bent bulldogs, but not one I'd call a "full bent". Someone here just bought a Todd Harris bulldog and that is probably as bent as you might find a bulldog shape. Unless you go way off the reservation on how a bulldog shape is traditionally shaped.

 

[Vito]

friar_jay:

OK...here you go — but first a caveat. I don't wish to stir up unresolvable arguments about what constitutes a "Bulldog" shape. In the strictest sense, a Bulldog is a straight shank pipe. I appreciate the argument that the very act of bending the shank makes it (technically) not a Bulldog, if one is going to insist on a rigid adherence to traditional or "classic" shape nomenclature. In that sense, I suppose that "Bent Bulldog" is something of an oxymoron, like "genuine counterfeit" or "honest politician".

Nevertheless, I take the spirit of your original question to mean, "Are there any pipes whose bowls are approximately Bulldoggish, and are fully-bent into the bargain?" The answer is clearly "Yes". Here are some examples (click on the thumbnails for larger images):





How about this meerschaum:



...and I'd be remiss if I failed to mention these Bulldoggish offerings in Peterson's Sherlock Holmes series:





And of course there are many pipes that are called "Bent Bulldogs", but are arguably somewhere between a Bulldoggy and a Rhodesian, such as this one:



The point is that, notwithstanding the arguments over shape nomenclature, if you want a Bulldoggish kind of pipe with a bent shank, there are plenty to be found.

 

[riff raff]

Great examples Vito!

Upshall calls this a "bent Rhodesian" on their website, but they have the diamond shank, so I call them bulldogs. When I referred to them as Rhodesians, it was constantly pointed out to me that they were bulldogs...

 

[Vito]

Great examples Vito!

Upshall calls this a "bent Rhodesian" on their website, but they have the diamond shank, so I call them bulldogs. When I referred to them as Rhodesians, it was constantly pointed out to me that they were bulldogs...

Yeah, I know that's what some folks say, Brothah riff raff. That's precisely why I specified that I'm not going to argue over shape nomenclatures. It's useless. I just smile and light up another bowl o' weed.

To me, a Bulldog has a bowl height-to-width aspect ratio that's greater than 1:1. In other words, my "traditionalist" sense of Bulldogitude is that the bowl is taller than its diameter. There are plenty of folks who argue that if it has a diamond shank, it can't possibly be a Rhodesian. I won't naysay them, but I consider the aspect ratio to be the key factor. It's a personal preference...that's all.

Truth be told, the lines have been so blurred by modern pipe carvers that the traditional nomenclature is no longer something anyone should take too seriously, except maybe historians and collectors. I'm neither. I just smoke 'em.

Case in point: Castello calls this a Bent Bulldog...

That's OK with me. It's their pipe, and they can call it whatever they want. Or how about this one by Kai Nielsen:

Mr. Nielsen calls it a Bulldog. Who am I to argue with him?

Here's the bottom line: If I like the pipe, I'll buy it, no matter what they call it. :mrgreen:

 

[friar_jay]

Interesting information brothers...I appreciate it all. While I merely used the bulldog as an example because I figured it would be pretty rough to accomplish a full bend because of the diamond shape I've learned a lot in these few posts. Enough to know that I want to get hold of a bulldog eventually.

Of course today I saw a rather interesting design on a pipe shape chart that I may seek out eventually...it was called a Dawes.

 

[George Kaplan]

Of course today I saw a rather interesting design on a pipe shape chart that I may seek out eventually...it was called a Dawes.

Hey! That's a new one to me.

 

[friar_jay]

Upon further research I've discovered that it's more accurately called the Lyon Pipe.

http://pipedia.org/index.php?title=The_Lyon_Pipe

What made the pipe unique was that it contained an inner bowl that screwed into an outer bowl. Smoke traveled through a hole in the bottom of the inner bowl and around the threads of the screw to the bit, which was located at the top of the outer bowl, giving the pipe a unique shape. The smoke was thus cooled before it reached the smoker's mouth.

Here's a cartoon picture of what it looks like...

"The Dawes pipe (more correctly named the Lyons, after its inventor, Charles Herbert Lyons) happened to be the favorite pipe of General Charles G. Dawes, Vice-President of the United States from 1925 to 1929. General Dawes smoked the curious pipe incessantly and it became popularly known as the Dawes Underslung, because the shank joined the bowl near its rim."

Looks like there is one on eBay right now...though it has been thoroughly used.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/No-Name-Smoking-Pipe-5-75-243-/160835027264?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257283c140

 

[Vito]

friar_jay:

There's at least one modern day equivalent of that pipe that works on a similar principle, although it looks like it's executed differently in the Lyons pipe. It's called the Acme Double Chamber Pipe.

Of course, the epitome of that approach is probably the calabash with a meerschaum bowl. They're not terribly popular pipes, but there's no cooler or drier smoke. If you want to seek the Holy Grail of smokage, find yourself a good calabash.