The Price of Artisan Pipes

Brothers of Briar

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Well, if all goes well in life...

...this...

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...plus this...

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...plus this...

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...every weekend on the highways until I can't no mo'... :cheers: :p
 
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equals

feeling guilty for being too happy :)

rev
 
:cheers: I just realized I'd have to take 395 down south to visit someone in L.A., in this wonderful scenario that's developing. 8)
 
OK. If you jagoffs are done farting around, back to business. Chairman Marty has delivered himself of another installment of old-head wisdom. I.e.,

Based on a phone call inquiring about the probable smoking properties of a specific pipe maker, I have decided that wood, i.e., briar, will be the topic in this highly educational, maybe even motivational, series.

The caller said briar was a mystery to him. Of course it is. It's a mystery to everybody, and no people more than pipe makers. I may have broken this guy's heart when I told him that whatever brand pipe he buys, at whatever price, the quality of smoke it provides will be a crap shoot.

Wood grown in the ground, is subject to the vicissitudes of soil, air, air-temp., water amounts, and intervals between watering, the fertility of the land and lots of other things I can't think of. It is, I suppose, much like grapes in some respects, which can produce such different wines from very neighboring plots.

I'll tell you this...almost everything you read about briar vis a vis smoking pipes is probably either wrong or questionable.

Let me give you one example. In any number of ads, I saw one pipe brand advertising that they used only the finest Corsican briar. Two things wrong with that.

One is, if all the people who claimed to use Corsican briar actually did, that small Island would be denuded of flora. Number two is that I have certain knowledge that the claim is false, if not an outright lie. I saw their signatures on the pad in the Stanwell factory in Borup, Denmark that hung from the wall in the briar warehouse and listed exactly how many pieces of briar they bought from that Stanwell stock. Stanwell doesn't use Corsican briar. They bought Greek or Moroccan briar. I trust that they bought it in order to make pipes.

Forget the Corsican myth, not that Corsican briar isn't good. It has the potential to be as good, or as bad, as briar from everywhere else. (Except Mission Briar, which was harvested in the Santa Cruz Mountains during WWII when Mediterranean briar was unavailable. Another reason to avoid war. I smoked a Kaywoodie made of Mission Briar. It was awful. "Mission Briar" is a close cousin to the Mediterranean Erica Arborea...just not close enough.)

So, now you know that briar can be good, mediocre or bad, depending on the piece of briar. The way to find out is to load the chamber with tobacco and light it. This method is foolproof. On the other hand, it does tend to require the purchase of the pipe beforehand. Ay, and there's the rub.

(This is not entirely true, I have been told more than once. If, when the pipe maker is working with the briar on a disc or belt sander the wood emits a sweet smell, it is almost a sure thing that the piece of briar will smoke sweet, as well. But, what can a pipe maker do? He can't say, "this pipe is going to smoke great. It even smells sweet." To do that would be to imply that all the other pieces are less good. It would bring his business to a near immediate standstill. It's the old Pete Rose syndrome.)

The above exposition, if that's what it is, is exceedingly short, matching my fuse right now, so I'll go on to a concluding thought.

Outside of not coating bowls (see Greg Pease's articles on this touchy subject, with which I am in complete agreement), perhaps the most important, controllable, factor in creating wood with a good smoke is aging the briar. This is in dispute and as no two pieces of briar are exactly alike, I don't know how you could begin an experiment to test this hypothesis. Yet, it is this aspect of the old, revered pipe companies, such as Barling and Dunhill, that have created such legendary smokes, I believe. These companies, almost all of them in England, would buy enough wood for the long term...maybe a decade's worth, and throw it into a warehouse and let time reduce the young briar's excess moisture. And what is it about aging (or curing) wood that makes this difference?

I think it's all the things...the air, some being saltier than other, for instance, the pests that piss on the long-standing woodpile, etc. This imparts a character to the briar that can not be duplicated merely by drying the wood to a specified moisture content in the 6 mos. or so required to achieve that result. That's what I believe, and that's what many others believe. Just as many don't believe it, including some exceptional and veteran pipe makers. And while a pipe that is gorgeous in my eyes is impossible for me to resist, almost all of my pipe money goes into older pipes. Individual artisans can rarely afford the investment in a lot of wood that would allow for multi-year aging, and if they could, where would they find the space? But by most standards, I'm old and my thinking may be sclerotic. I won't argue that. You will have to find your own way through this metaphysical pipe world, but maybe this will provide some signposts.

That's about it for now. When I come back from my pipe hunting trip to Europe, I will continue this line with some talk about what you can expect to get for your money when you spend $200, or $300 or $600 or $1,000 for a pipe. (Cut those numbers in 1/2, or more, if discussing used pipes.)

http://www.pulversbriar.com/

:face:

 
I can't add a great deal of overview or insight into 100 years of briar-cutting traditions.

I think a couple points could be addressed though. One of the things people ignore is that the actual process undergone at the actual mill has far more effect on the wood than its origin. Case in point, if you buy briar from one Mimmo Romeo, it is all basically uniform in color and texture. And yet he candidly admits getting briar from all over the place - Spain, various parts of Italy, etc. And it all comes out of his process identically. Calling it "Romeo Briar" means a great deal more than calling it "Italian Briar". I buy Greek briar with similar properties. I also own Greek briar with utterly different properties of color, hardness, smell etc. It was treated differently.

So denominations of origin are basically worthless. Denominations of cutter/mill mean something.


Aging briar comes down to 2 processes. One is drying, which takes a surprisingly long time given how small the pieces are. The other is some kind of oxidation - the wood gets brown and hardens up some.

You can cut into even a pretty old block, 20 years, say, and find absolutely fresh wood after about .5mm. So the oxidation thing doesn't seem to be in play. We are left with the drying out of the blocks, possibly the setting/curing of whatever tannins or resins are left in the wood (and a good boil takes a lot of these out in the first place).

I've got blocks in my shop that were cut 25 years ago. I've got blocks in my shop that I think were boiled about 6 months ago. They are certainly different. But if I cut a pipe from the wet fresh wood and let it dry for 2 months, and then put a stem on it and finish it... it's really not distinguishable from the older wood in smoking characteristics. I could never light a new pipe and say "Oh yes, that's good 10 year old wood." for example.

Briar plays a role in the smoking characteristics and flavor for sure, and I think less and less so the older a pipe gets, in that, you have a good cake built up, probably have basically sealed any porosity in the airway, etc, by smoking the thing 500 times. A Castello tastes different than a Dunhill right off the hop, to me, but after 50 smokes I'm not so sure. It's like, if the briar is good enough, eventually the pipe will even out.

The actual physical properties of any piece of wood seem to play a role, but what one guy loves, another guy seems to dislike, so it's really hard to get a bead on just what having a more or less dense block, for example, will do.
 
Discussions of real interest & value like this one is what the internet ought to be for but only rarely ever achieves.

Whatever it is we're doing right, we should definitely keep it up.

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

:face:

 
Yak":vjm5xxdq said:
If you jagoffs are done farting around
Pfff...good luck with that. :lol:

But really...

Yak":vjm5xxdq said:
I may have broken this guy's heart when I told him that whatever brand pipe he buys, at whatever price, the quality of smoke it provides will be a crap shoot.

I'll tell you this...almost everything you read about briar vis a vis smoking pipes is probably either wrong or questionable.
...there it is. I'll only add to your short but agreeable exposé something I read somewhere, source forgotten, so any reading this can feel free to call bee-ess...young and/or fresh briar that hasn't been cured, dried or treated properly tastes like crap when made into a pipe and smoked. It further makes me curious if locale of the wood, which has epic myth following origin and pedigree already, isn't a bunch of malarkey, while how to treat any (true) briar being the key.

The way I see it, marketers, brand-followers and snobs have probably been trying to separate their product for a long time...with bigger numbers, longer years, finer locations and lofty claims. As that idea matures and takes on its own life, the truth blurs between any real claims that could be had. *shrug* I truly don't know. I'm not sure if anyone does. There's sure a lot of camps that seem to be in conflicting authority. What seems to be more true, because it's more controlled and closer to home, is how the pipe is engineered to smoke. The better the design, the less likely there will be problems. Notice I used that phrasing rather than "more likely to have a great smoke." It's still a crap shoot, one minimized by a good carver, with a reliable source of wood, who will stand behind his/her product.



Sasquatch":vjm5xxdq said:
...if I cut a pipe from the wet fresh wood and let it dry for 2 months, and then put a stem on it and finish it... it's really not distinguishable from the older wood in smoking characteristics. I could never light a new pipe and say "Oh yes, that's good 10 year old wood." for example.

A Castello tastes different than a Dunhill right off the hop, to me, but after 50 smokes I'm not so sure. It's like, if the briar is good enough, eventually the pipe will even out.
That's what I'm talking about, right there. For all the parades and fireworks over certain names and price points, they're either doing something totally different, or they're talking a good game. Somewhere in-between? There has to be a line of what-to-do versus what-not-to-do with briar, and some have dialed it in a bit more than others.

So is quality equal to price? At what level? I'd bet there's artisan pipes out there that look amazing but might not be using the same briar (or curing process, if I'm on to something here) resulting in those first fifty smokes putting a frown on a once-proud buyer. However, if patience will sus out any rough times with (what some could call) "substandard" briar/young briar/ill-cured briar, would it matter? Rabble-rousing further, money spent seems to be an unspoken both among seller/maker and buyer, "the best smoke and taste experience from first light til death do us part."

When that doesn't happen, the questions come up...cue segue into bowl coating subjects...

...*shrug*

Just pondering from the peanut gallery.

8)
 
I think we get glimpses of reality sometimes. Only often they aren't what we're looking for or are at odds with the prevailing mindset.

Case in point : Some time back I remarked that breaking in a Lane-era Charatan was a labor of love. One account I remember from way back compared it to smoking broken glass and nails. That got pretty well pooh-poohed by an acknowledged high pipe cred guy, so I let it go. Then, a couple days ago, I ran into

Neil Archer Roan":ln9l2jmm said:
The Charatans, in particular, cost more but were tougher to break in. My favorite of the Charatans – a Diplomat – initially delivered harsh overtones, no matter what was smoked in it. It finally yielded, becoming a go-to pipe in which I smoked Balkan Sobranie Original Mixture. It, too, has a permanent place on my rack.
I don't know if that "vindicates" me, but it's nice knowing that one has company in his delusion, at least.

Another case-in-point is Peterson. Which, as I recall, was at one point buying turned/shaped stummels from an outfit in Spain using local briar and stemming/finishing them in Ireland.

Like 'em or hate 'em, I think we probably could manage a consensus that many of them DO taste like Petes. To some, richer, fuller & deeper -- especially with Virginias. To at least one other high pipe cred writer, maybe something like mud.

For a third, Castellos.

Bottom line : So there's no simplistic answer. Cool. So what are the non-simplistic ones ?

:face:
 
Start with non-simplistic questions, as a guess. Jump in, the water's fine! :lol:

I was junk store shopping with some friends the other day and found a well-smoked but well taken care of Charatan, kind of a pot-billiard shape, straight stem. Really nice briar. Six bucks. Stem was totally gnawed through. My cohorts were disappointed, but I mentioned that thing could be re-stemmed and probably enjoyed for an under-$30 investment. So, one guy (Purple Gorilla on here) bought it, and is gonna have a go at it. Fortunately, at this point, almost any good pipe that was a bear to break in years ago has likely already been broken in, and hopefully treated nicely. Once it's all together, if he ain't into it or doesn't give it away, I'll buy it for $30. *shrug*

Petes are like pudding. Real pudding, not dessert pudding. When new, they're meaty, savory, thick, heavy and rich-tasting to me. Granted, this is through whatever coating I was able to remove--the stuff almost impossible to remove. :|

I think curing is a possible simplistic answer. I can't imagine, unless a maker has a private briar spread for harvesting, that can control all the natural variables, cultivation and location are what gives any notice of consistency. I would need confirmation on this next statement, but I assume pipe makers buy briar almost like tobacconists (used to?) buy tobacco...bidding on lots and batches, which change (naturally) all the time. The only thing they can do is uses the five senses and maybe some gut instinct to guide them, but knowing not much more than a general idea of where they came from. Maybe Alfred Dunhill had some crazy idea that if a briar tree was subjected to no less than 10 rainy days and no more than 30, over the course of 50 years, it'd produce the best wood. No way of (cost-effectively) gauging this, but... *shrug*...more fodder to why some pipes cost more?

8)
 
The one Lane-era Charatan I've kept is a 2109X (bent bulldog) Special (re-stemmed in acrylic for use).

It consistently delivers a sweet intensity with FVF, but at arm's length. It subtracts nothing but it adds nothing either. Just pure, disinterested, "Here's your smoke." Strange little pipe. Must be the famed "British reserve."

:face:
 
Yak":nj6txw8w said:
The one Lane-era Charatan I've kept is a 2109X (bent bulldog) Special (re-stemmed in acrylic for use).

It consistently delivers a sweet intensity with FVF, but at arm's length. It subtracts nothing but it adds nothing either. Just pure, disinterested, "Here's your smoke." Strange little pipe. Must be the famed "British reserve."

:face:
The briar that I've been buying lately is just that way. Adds absolutely nothing, seems to subtract nothing. Some of the Italian wood seems to be almost like a filter - takes out the highs. My Castello was pretty earthy for the first dozen smokes (I suspect a certain Greek supply there). The Greek wood I've been stocking up on is just.... neutral. Completely passive, and I think that's actually as good as you can ask for.
 
The Charatan kind of reminds me of a Chinese prostitute, reading a newspaper or a magazine while her client "does his thing."

:face:
 
Yak":ucn9ab24 said:
The Charatan kind of reminds me of a Chinese prostitute, reading a newspaper or a magazine while her client "does his thing."

:face:
Probably not the best marketing idea, however apt... :lol:
 
Yak":oocaui41 said:
"Sex" doesn't sell stuff any more ? :shock: :scratch:

:face:
Sex appeal while reading a newspaper as the monkey grinds the organ, so to speak, probably is a different pace than the modern image-conscious are willing to concede. :lol!:
 
I don't know, Kyle.

Modern guys are pretty self-absorbed, it seems :scratch:

:face:
 
Exactly. If the lady involved is seemingly bored, well, Modern Male just wouldn't like that for his self-image. She ought to be acting as if he were Zeus throwing thunderbolts at all times. Which is why this was great for a British pipe of another time...funny stuff. :alien:
 
Smokingpipes has a beautiful, low-slung Rhodesian by a hot carver. Smooth, very good grain, though I've seen better. $950.00! Even if I had the money, I wouldn't buy it as a matter of principle. Although perhaps provincial, my limit is $500.00. I don't understand how any pipe can be worth more. They also have a Maigurs Knets lovat with his often-used ornamentation and staining. It is very unusual and perhaps deserves to be over that limit. No one else that I have seen so ornaments. But the carver is hot. Someone else will buy that pipe at that price.
 
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