July Bombing...a Red, White and Blue Extravaganza!

[George Kaplan]

I think we are all eliminated for suggesting other aircraft :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Especially enemy aircraft! Any of you aviation buffs want to take a stab at identifying this one? (another of our local treasures)

 

[kaiser83]

It looks like something out of a James Bond film....Roger Moore era Bond

 

[SPUD 15]

The best of the group of course is the P-51 but it never would of been built if it was not for the fact that Curtiss aircraft had a huge order for p-40s that it could not fill and the Govnt. at that time asked North American to tool up to manufacture some P-40s which was common during WWII. The engineers from North American designed the P-51 on the train fron CAL. to Washington and told the procurment office that they could start production just as quick for the p-40, or the far superior P-51. Of course North American got the contract which in turn made an overage of p-40s. That is how Gen Chennault Got the P-40s to China making then forever known as the
FLYING TIGERS. That is why my pick would be the P-40 as the P-51 would of never been built if it was not for the P-40.

THE p-51 WITH THE RR ENGINE WAS THE FAR SUPERIOR A/C OF THE GROUP


SORRY FOR THE LITTLE HISTORY LESSON mike

 

[George Kaplan]

SORRY FOR THE LITTLE HISTORY LESSON mike

Actually, sir, that was very interesting. I heard a story somewhere that the P-51 plans were drawn on a napkin. Perhaps there's a seed of truth to that tall tale.

 

[i.keenum]

Warhawk , just an iconic american image to me.

 

[gravel]

The P51. It looks so airplaney.

 

[DrT999]

It looks so airplaney.

What more could anyone possibly ask for? :cheers:

 

[kaiser83]

The P51. It looks so airplaney.

BH I nominate Gravels' response as one in the running of the best. Wait can we nominate..crap I think I am adding more rules in here now lol.

 

[Blackhorse]

No - just for asking quetions. And even though that German fighter WAS the first jet in combat flight and could go faster, by far, than any other plane in the sky at the time...the range SUCKED. It had a mission time so short it couldn't really fly escort. I guess it just took off from a field to meet the Allied forces and had like two of three passes in it before it ran out of fuel. But those figures are just from recollection, not actual research. I just remember seeing a Military Channel show on 'the 10 best' or something and that was the gist of what I remember.

Rob can likely fill us in on the real poop and scare it out of all the pilots. lol


OH! And by the way...paint is where you find it.

 

[kaiser83]

OH! And by the way...paint is where you find it.

He puts up an old German looking bike and side car when he could put up an American chopper with the same paint scheme.....disappointment. :evil:

 

[George Kaplan]

He puts up an old German looking bike and side car when he could put up an American chopper with the same paint scheme.....disappointment. :evil:

So let's see one, Kaiser!
(I was gonna point out that Ural's are Russian-made, but I'm pretty sure they copied BMW designs, so yeah, still German-looking.)

 

[kaiser83]

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Custom%20Bikes/P-40%20Warhawk%20by%20Hardcore%20Choppers.jpg
http://www.clubchopper.com/forums/attachments/buell-xl-forum/19874d1164630641-calling-buell-xl-chops-p40-028.jpg
http://www.hardcorechoppers.com/wp-content/gallery/p40-warhawk/3at_6906.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3248/2746195939_5f04cc4400_z.jpg?zz=1
http://www.roadbikemag.com/photopost/data/500/medium/P10100061.JPG
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290431/494893.jpg

Okay sorry it is all links. Servimg and my network don't always like to get along and I am too stupid to figure out how to just put the darn pics in here other than with jpeg links.

 

[Rob_In_MO]

And even though that German fighter WAS the first jet in combat flight and could go faster, by far, than any other plane in the sky at the time...the range SUCKED. It had a mission time so short it couldn't really fly escort. I guess it just took off from a field to meet the Allied forces and had like two of three passes in it before it ran out of fuel. But those figures are just from recollection, not actual research. I just remember seeing a Military Channel show on 'the 10 best' or something and that was the gist of what I remember.

Rob can likely fill us in on the real poop and scare it out of all the pilots.

A little history on the ME-262. I didn't write this, but felt that it was fitting for posting here per Commander BH's request.



You can imagine what the allies must have thought when the Me262 first appeared in the skies. Although it had a terribly slow takeoff run, once it got into the air, the "Sturmvogel" (German for Stormbird) was the fastest plane in the sky. At more than 530 MPH it was almost 100 MPH faster than anything the allies had.

Plans for the new jet were drawn up in 1939. The first flight was made on July 18th, 1942 and it first saw action in 1944. When it was first discussed, Hitler had ordered the planes to be built as ground attack bombers - a plane he could use to win the war. The designers instead turned them into defensive interceptor fighters. Hitler was furious, but by then it was too late.

Initially known as "Projeckt P.1065, the plane had a wingspan of 41 feet, a length of 34 feet 9 inches and a maximum speed of 541 MPH. The range was a limited 652 miles, but it was enough to reek havoc on allied bombers. The standard attack started high above and behind the bomber. The Jet would then dive down below the altitude of the bomber (picking up additional speed) then climb back up and open fire from behind.

The jet definitely had its problems: Hitting an allied bomber at high speed was difficult, but slowing down enough to get a good shot made you a sitting duck. Another shortcoming was that when it went into a dive, you couldn't exceed mach .86. The down trim would lock the plane into a dive that it couldn't pull out of.

The acceleration on takeoff was so slow that the jets were extremely vulnerable to enemy attacks during takeoff or landings (or while on the ground). Although more than 1400 Me262's were built, few of them actually saw action. Fuel was scarce and there were a limited number of pilots qualified to fly the "new" jet planes.

The engines were not very reliable (engine lifetime was 20-25 hours) and because the engines were mounted close to the ground, the planes were limited to concrete runways (the engines would set asphalt runways on fire...) When they finally did get airborne, they were armed with four 30mm MK-108 cannons, two 550 pound bombs and 24 2.2 inch rockets. The rockets were the primary weapon, devastatingly effective to bomber formations.

Although there were more than 1400 of the jets built - there were never more than 200 of them operational at any point in time. Fuel was scarce and very few pilots were able to transition to the jets very quickly. The jets were barely able to fly on 2 engines and flame outs were common occurances. The loss of an engine usually meant the loss of the plane and to top it off... no ejection seat - the planes were designed to be built quickly and inexpensively.

While it may not have been the best jet plane in the world, it was the first and from there, there was no way to go but up...

 

[Mozjo33]

Once more into the brink...that's me signing in BH.

My vote is for the P-40

Simple reason...it's what John Wayne flew in Flying Tigers!!

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[EC Outlaw]

I'm casting a vote for the P-38. In my opinion, it was the most balanced of the prop-driven warbirds of the Second World War. Like most aircraft of the era, it had design bugs which had to be worked out in the early stages of production, but ended up as one of the most effective aircraft of it's era.

The original production did not have counter-rotating propellers, which caused many of the original pilots to condemn the aircraft as a "widow-maker" at take-off and landing speeds. But the supercharged engines did give it excellent high-altitude performance. The pentagon, however, would not allow the superchargers to be installed on the aircraft ordered by the British, which made that version a poor performer. After the U.S. entered the war, the supercharged model was allowed in the European theater, and performed very well. It was also considered the best photo-reconn aircraft in the theater.

Once the design was converted to counter-rotating propellers, the aircraft became much more stable at low speeds, and with the tricycle landing gear it provided a better sight line for take-off and landing. As mentioned by another brother, the center mounted armament is easier to line up, and pilots did not have to decide at what distance they wanted the plane's machine guns to converge at, to obtain maximum damage on the opponent.

It was a natural long-range aircraft, not requiring additional bladder tanks (internal to the fuselage) as the P-51 did.

We should also remember that the P-51 was a 'dud' as originally built. With the Allison engine, as originally equipped when shipped to the British, the 'Apache', as it was called, could not achieve sufficient performance to be an interceptor/fighter. It was relegated by the Brits to the ground attack role. It did not have a bubble canopy, and rearward visibility was poor. Only when the Brits married the 'Apache' frame to the Rolls-Royce Merlin V-12 engine, with the British version of the supercharger, did the P-51 become a great aircraft.

Both aircraft performed magnificently in the Second World War, and early in the Korean War. Both remained in service in foreign airforces for many years after their retirement from service in U.S. service.

But my vote goes to the P-38 Lightning - The plane that got Yamamoto!

 

[MisterE]

Yo GK-

Curtiss-Wright XP-55. 8)

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[Rob_In_MO]

Darn you, Mister E - I just logged on and saw this....


Crap, you beat me to it...

 

[MisterE]

I'd never even heard of it until now. I know WW2-Korean War aircraft pretty well, but this one is rare. :shock:

 

[Rob_In_MO]

EC - the only early-on problem with the P-38 that hasn't been mentioned yet was with aerodynamics related to the tail.

This was remedied in later versions, but early on it was a concern. At first ( I believe by the P-38D version) they added fillets to compensate for buffeting and tail flutter - which together could cause serious problems in a dive. Compression was still a problem however. Later versions were modified so as to nearly eliminate this problem.

Here's a little more info on this topic:

The P-38J finally resolved the compressibility problems encountered in high-speed dives, when a shock wave forming over the wings made it impossible for a pilot to operate the elevators. Once this was understood to be the problem, Lockheed engineers designed small dive flaps, electrically-powered, that broke up the shock wave. These corrective dive flaps were installed on all P-38's, starting with late-block -J versions.

 

[George Kaplan]

Good eye, Mr. E! I don't know how many were built, but that one was in pieces when they brought it in.They spent a couple of years restoring it.
Oh, and Rob,

EC - the only early-on problem with the P-38 that hasn't been mentioned yet was with aerodynamics related to the tail.

I did mention the tail. Ironically, it was the sentence right after the one you quoted from my post! (Man! Talk about people not wanting to read!)