The Peterson 4AB POTY Is Coming.

[mtvernon]

I also described my involvement in the opening post of this thread.

I only realized after reading this that I missed the entire first page of this conversation. What a great amount of satisfaction you must have, realizing as you do that you truly championed this idea and that it actually came to fruition. That doesn’t happen too often, and we all thank you and Mark and Shane and Sykes and everyone else.

 

[JimInks]

I only realized after reading this that I missed the entire first page of this conversation. What a great amount of satisfaction you must have, realizing as you do that you truly championed this idea and that it actually came to fruition. That doesn’t happen too often, and we all thank you and Mark and Shane and Sykes and everyone else.

Thank you!

 

[RSteve]

It appears that a few are already starting to appear on Ebay.

 

[Zeno Marx]

It appears that a few are already starting to appear on Ebay.

A cottage industry, like scalping tickets. It's always been gross.

 

[mtvernon]

Yeah…not a fan. There’s something about it that seems to really go against the spirit of the whole thing.

 

[RSteve]

Yeah…not a fan. There’s something about it that seems to really go against the spirit of the whole thing.

I have mixed feelings. It does give folks the opportunity to buy one that missed the opportunity at Smokingpipes.com. Is it any different than selling tins of tobacco for many times their original retail?

 

[Zeno Marx]

I have mixed feelings. It does give folks the opportunity to buy one that missed the opportunity at Smokingpipes.com. Is it any different than selling tins of tobacco for many times their original retail?

I feel it is on a brand new item. It gets arbitrary when then trying to apply a time frame on it, though. I acknowledge that. Brand new items that sold out in minutes or hours isn't cool. The couple I found on ebay sold items sold for retail (I think), so I don't have a problem with that at all. That seller, or sellers, isn't milking the hobby for additional gains. If they're bloating the original retail price in an immediate way, it's scuzzy. Part of this does fall on Peterson, though. They created this nonsense with limited editions. This is certainly a consequence of such an approach. Everyone loses, especially their customers. They do something cool and interesting, and then they wrap it all up in a problematic situation. Leaving a foul taste is almost something of a bygone era, though. Today's public almost expects to be taken advantage of, by either companies/corporations or their peers. Nobody really cares, as long as they get theirs. It's sad. It's a whole other discussion that feeds into this situation.

 

[Idlefellow]

Jim, what is the "flat black" appearing finish, third down in your group of six?

 

[JimInks]

Jim, what is the "flat black" appearing finish, third down in your group of six?

That's the Heritage Brown. It's dark, but it's brown. The bottom one is Ebony.

 

[mtvernon]

I feel it is on a brand new item. It gets arbitrary when then trying to apply a time frame on it, though. I acknowledge that. Brand new items that sold out in minutes or hours isn't cool. The couple I found on ebay sold items sold for retail (I think), so I don't have a problem with that at all. That seller, or sellers, isn't milking the hobby for additional gains. If they're bloating the original retail price in an immediate way, it's scuzzy. Part of this does fall on Peterson, though. They created this nonsense with limited editions. This is certainly a consequence of such an approach. Everyone loses, especially their customers. They do something cool and interesting, and then they wrap it all up in a problematic situation. Leaving a foul taste is almost something of a bygone era, though. Today's public almost expects to be taken advantage of, by either companies/corporations or their peers. Nobody really cares, as long as they get theirs. It's sad. It's a whole other discussion that feeds into this situation.

I’m on board with all of this. I haven’t historically been all that excited about Peterson special editions. They often seem gimmicky. This year, and I could be wrong, but it seems like they came out with a very limited, very special edition every couple of months. I don’t quite understand the marketing strategy behind that, because people who love Petersons probably aren’t super excited about dropping down a couple hundred bucks every month or two just to complete their collection. It feels a little grabby on Peterson’s part to me.

 

[Zeno Marx]

I’m on board with all of this. I haven’t historically been all that excited about Peterson special editions. They often seem gimmicky. This year, and I could be wrong, but it seems like they came out with a very limited, very special edition every couple of months. I don’t quite understand the marketing strategy behind that, because people who love Petersons probably aren’t super excited about dropping down a couple hundred bucks every month or two just to complete their collection. It feels a little grabby on Peterson’s part to me.

This is the model for many collector/hobby businesses. The music industry is driven by this now. Limited editions for Record Store Day. Instant, "full" financial returns as everything sells out within minutes at best, or days at worst. No back stock and warehousing. Demand far outnumbering supply, so prices can easily be manipulated in favor of business. Creating a frenzy and a constant watch of a website or brand. Psychological warfare with the customer base, which in turn, sets customers against customers. Customers picking up multiple copies for resale as a possible way to offset the gouging. I imagine this is happening with knives, pens, guns, clothing, sneakers, beer/liquor, and just about anything with a brand-minded, hobbyist market. Turning people who aren't collectors into collectors for a sense of rarity.

 

[mtvernon]

This is the model for many collector/hobby businesses. The music industry is driven by this now. Limited editions for Record Store Day. Instant, "full" financial returns as everything sells out within minutes at best, or days at worst. No back stock and warehousing. Demand far outnumbering supply, so prices can easily be manipulated in favor of business. Creating a frenzy and a constant watch of a website or brand. Psychological warfare with the customer base, which in turn, sets customers against customers. Customers picking up multiple copies for resale as a possible way to offset the gouging. I imagine this is happening with knives, pens, guns, clothing, sneakers, beer/liquor, and just about anything with a brand-minded, hobbyist market. Turning people who aren't collectors into collectors for a sense of rarity.

100% agreed. And if they don’t participate, they get left behind. Or something.

 

[JimInks]

I feel it is on a brand new item. It gets arbitrary when then trying to apply a time frame on it, though. I acknowledge that. Brand new items that sold out in minutes or hours isn't cool. The couple I found on ebay sold items sold for retail (I think), so I don't have a problem with that at all. That seller, or sellers, isn't milking the hobby for additional gains. If they're bloating the original retail price in an immediate way, it's scuzzy. Part of this does fall on Peterson, though. They created this nonsense with limited editions. This is certainly a consequence of such an approach. Everyone loses, especially their customers. They do something cool and interesting, and then they wrap it all up in a problematic situation. Leaving a foul taste is almost something of a bygone era, though. Today's public almost expects to be taken advantage of, by either companies/corporations or their peers. Nobody really cares, as long as they get theirs. It's sad. It's a whole other discussion that feeds into this situation.

My goal was regular production of the 4AB. Shane Ireland wanted regular production, too. I haven't given up on working on them to do that. I told Shane from the very beginning, and several times after - and he agreed with me - that when it was released, they needed to make more than a thousand because they'd sell that many the first day. "You guys could make a fortune with this pipe." Shane agreed. Unfortunately, it wasn't his decision to make, but I know he tried. As hard as that stem was to make (there was no mold for it, so they were hand cut), I guess a super large amount was too much to hope for. For now, anyway. I have hopes we'll see it made again.

 

[JimInks]

This is the model for many collector/hobby businesses. The music industry is driven by this now. Limited editions for Record Store Day. Instant, "full" financial returns as everything sells out within minutes at best, or days at worst. No back stock and warehousing. Demand far outnumbering supply, so prices can easily be manipulated in favor of business. Creating a frenzy and a constant watch of a website or brand. Psychological warfare with the customer base, which in turn, sets customers against customers. Customers picking up multiple copies for resale as a possible way to offset the gouging. I imagine this is happening with knives, pens, guns, clothing, sneakers, beer/liquor, and just about anything with a brand-minded, hobbyist market. Turning people who aren't collectors into collectors for a sense of rarity.

Comic book companies and baseball card companies started doing that in the 1980s. It's nothing new as you say. Unfortunately.

 

[mtvernon]

My goal was regular production of the 4AB. Shane Ireland wanted regular production, too. I haven't given up on working on them to do that. I told Shane from the very beginning, and several times after - and he agreed with me - that when it was released, they needed to make more than a thousand because they'd sell that many the first day. "You guys could make a fortune with this pipe." Shane agreed. Unfortunately, it wasn't his decision to make, but I know he tried. As hard as that stem was to make (there was no mold for it, so they were hand cut), I guess a super large amount was too much to hope for. For now, anyway. I have hopes we'll see it made again.

Is there somewhere where I can find out the explanation for why the stem is so difficult to make? My layman‘s eyes are insufficient to understand it from what I’ve seen. Also, now that they’ve tackled that challenge, is it also a continued difficult process to continue producing, or was the R&D the hard part? I hope that’s the case, because like you said, it would be great if this was a regular production pipe again.

 

[JimInks]

Is there somewhere where I can find out the explanation for why the stem is so difficult to make? My layman‘s eyes are insufficient to understand it from what I’ve seen. Also, now that they’ve tackled that challenge, is it also a continued difficult process to continue producing, or was the R&D the hard part? I hope that’s the case, because like you said, it would be great if this was a regular production pipe again.

Maybe Mark Irwin can answer your questions. I figure the R&D was the hardest part. Try contacting Mark at his Peterson Notes site, and ask him. I'd love to hear what he has to say about it.

 

[Zeno Marx]

This is something I don't understand about modern business practices. As in, I literally do not understand. It's not an emotional response. If the work is already done, as in the design, configurations, developed skills, etc, when you have a product that would continue to sell in perpetuity, why would you not keep them in production? If it is a matter of having to set an employee or two aside just for hand cutting these stems, why not create, or dig up from history, another shape or two to create a line of pipes in this order? There's a line there where I'm meddling in how they run their business. I don't know how else to ask the questions. I'm at a loss why businesses have product that have clear demand, yet they shelf them. Maybe the finance department has to crunch some numbers and prove, or disprove, whether having another employee or two is worth it. This is also where the public gets frustrated with hearing how small businesses need more business to continue to exist, and here's a seemingly clear opportunity for said new, additional business that is being neglected.

Business in 2021 is weird. I'm asking questions, but I don't think I really want to understand it. It's interpretive dance that looks like a bunch of flailing limbs.

 

[mtvernon]

Maybe Mark Irwin can answer your questions. I figure the R&D was the hardest part. Try contacting Mark at his Peterson Notes site, and ask him. I'd love to hear what he has to say about it.

On it!

 

[JimInks]

A friend said I really didn't have the complete 4AB set because I didn't get the regular sandblast when I got the Premium Sandblast. M'lady bought the extra one, unsmoked, that he had for a late Valentine's Day present, so I do have them all, now!

 

[Balisong]

M'lady bought the extra one

Sweet wife, sweet pipe!